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 Re: حتي لا نكون متناقضين مع ما نطرحه (Re: TahaElham)
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Dear Wadgasim, Taha and the other participants,
With out enjoying this post I have posted the coming humble comments in Taha’s post in which he is trying to direct people to certain approaches in thier discussion in this posts, thank you for him to inform me about this vital topic, any way if you don’t mind I would love to transfer it here, and please every body is authorized to help the others in understanding what I meant if there is any problem with the language, in fact I was misunderstood in the Taha’s post, and I think either due to the language barriers or may be a pre ideas that built on assuming things that I didn’t mentioned, this happened from Dr. Najat , I think she is not in a good mood with our brother Wadgasim and this related to his post a bout the educational degrees , let me send a message for her from here; this board is a place for all the interested regardless their nationality or their religion to develop an objective, fruitful and valuable discussion that we all dream to help in making our horrible lives better in all aspects, sociopolitical and economically and believe me if there is any one still thinks that there are some issues should be kept under the shade as unthinkable, this totally wrong, the time has passed for such believing, and if he thinks what is said about religions or cultures or social issues is too hard, I would say not yet the hardest is coming , this are the beginnings for nations being oppressed for many centuries.
I think this issue would be a bit small regard to the Islam other problems if we have to be frank with more courage. I think what is the Moslem used to say whenever they open a deep discussion about the Islam; is that the Quran and automatically Islam is valid to all the times, that means 21 century and the 20th millennium. This ultimately is not true theoretically and practically; theoretically there is no ultimate and absolute over this earth if it is about a scientific truth and if we are talking about the social truths it could be working though the believes of many, but that doesn't give the social truth the right to be true and just true even not a absolute according to “Mohamed Arkoon”, bearing in mind that any thing related to religion is a matter of believe and the believe is not more than an opinion reflects the set up of the ideas for the one who believes.
On the other hand we hear people repeat like any birds that the ISLAM is valid to any time; tell me how? If still there is constant ongoing fact in the Moslem societies represented; anyone wants to be a Moslem then he has to be an Arabian in the way your mind works at least to understand many things; they still consider that Quran is only in Arabic and if it is translated in English this just a translation that is not holly one, because it is not in Arabic, once I have written in this board that; the Islam is not and would not be a civilized religion that can address the whole mankind unless it get rid off the Arabian culture so that it can address every body according to his culture and within the sets of their ethical system and the approach will be: Islam general concepts like tolerance as example.
Having said that then what are all the contributors is a bout would be the symptoms of the problem, which could be identified in the mentality, and the way that Moslems think.
I believe that the whole Quran and not only chapters is talking about a certain historical eras; the Arab elements with its culture had the major role in them. So to build such historical consciousness to be developed in social consensus this would be the challenging part, and that needs courage to face the fact a way from the idea of; I have a paved way to hell because I start touch what is considered as unthinkable, this an individual chemical process that need to take place inside every one before it goes to public, I also believe that many people always have the problem of asking the tough questions because they are not ready to make their mind up and they are not ready to tolerate the new conclusions that might come up out of this process.
Therefore my friends this just the new beginning even though the Islamic history is full of such thing starting by the Motizalla, Alhalaj, Ibn Rushd, Hussien Morwa, Faraj Fuda, Salman Rushi, Nafisa Sadig, Tesnima Nassar, Nasr Hamid Abuzied Mahmoud Mohamed Taha, this would not stop simply because there is a daily need for the change to take place, these societies are not stagnant, they are moving and they have new realities that present a new situations that is impossible to be dealt with by the way that the traditional, fundamental, extremist zealous are presenting for these societies now a days; they have the choice to come to our current time instead of attempting to take us back to the Arabian ancient holly eras.
Last thing that I still can not understand; are two things in the way that the traditional mentality works; represented by Dr.Bayan and Hopeless the hopeless case in this post; whenever people start discussion and they felt that their stand is weak and they have no even the twisted logic to discuss; they bring their well known mechanisms 1/ the conspiracy theory and they cry that the Jew are behind this- to be fair they didn’t use this mechanism yet; 2/another mechanism is that the Western civilization is declining and they have the high rate of divorces and they have high rates of betrays between the husbands and they have the highest rates of violence against the woman and the kids, simply these societies have their own conditions and they have developed through long historical process to have the current situations and they are preparing them selves to meet their new social obligations . They even have the place to raise up the kids if the parents are not qualified to do that; tell me what do you have in what is so called the Islamic countries; due to the ignorance and the absence of the democracy and the transparency, there is no any completed scientific study about the prostitution, divorce rates, the family violence. When you hear them criticizing the Western societies as if they know it you think they have the perfect societies in their dreamed world and this one of the problems that the Arabian mentalities always have; dealing with the possibilities as final truths; according to Dr. Aljabri ( www.aljabriabed.com)
I think this could be an outstanding approach for discussing and analyzing what is so considered as unthinkable.
One thing I can not understand is: are the you I mean Bayan and Hopless serious when you talk about the situation of none Moslems in the dreamed ideal Islamic state which was not found in the whole history of Islam, I really wander how can some one in the second mellinium with all the revolutions in the human rights; freedom of expression, freedom of believing; how come you still talking about how the none Moslem to be treated in the Islamic State, and you have forgotten a very valuable fact; there is nothing called Islamic state with the standards that you have in your mind in our current time even if the whole populations are Moslems , the problem of the Islamic thinking need to be revised not only to solve the problem of the new modern issues , but also to fill the gab between things that have no existence in our daily life and the new demands; financial institutions, the failed experiment of what is so called the Islamic banking and the big faked issues like the Islamic economic system, the taxes and the Zakat, marriage, legal system and so many outstanding issues
Let us start making the revolutionary thinking that will be translated in the welfare of our communities and you need to be armed against the terrorism against thinking; this one of the ancient terrorism shapes.
Bakry
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الكاتب |
Date |
| تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-10-03, 11:43 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | alsngaq | 08-10-03, 12:21 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-10-03, 01:02 PM |
 Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-10-03, 12:31 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-10-03, 03:09 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-10-03, 01:21 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | abuguta | 08-10-03, 01:55 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-10-03, 04:18 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | nasiradin | 08-10-03, 01:48 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-10-03, 08:24 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | nasiradin | 08-10-03, 08:42 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-11-03, 08:59 AM |
 Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-10-03, 05:49 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | abuguta | 08-11-03, 08:31 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-11-03, 04:18 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | alsngaq | 08-11-03, 09:57 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | خضر حسين | 08-11-03, 04:38 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-12-03, 03:24 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-11-03, 09:23 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | elsharief | 08-12-03, 03:05 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-12-03, 09:26 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | elsharief | 08-16-03, 07:23 PM |
 Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-12-03, 04:53 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-12-03, 07:22 PM |
| ود قاسم | توما | 08-12-03, 11:45 PM |
| Re: ود قاسم | ودقاسم | 08-13-03, 01:09 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-13-03, 12:05 PM |
 Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | TahaElham | 08-13-03, 05:17 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-13-03, 05:47 PM |
 Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-13-03, 06:29 PM |
| Re: خلق القران | TahaElham | 08-13-03, 05:43 PM |
| Re: لماذا لم تكن الستينات فترة ازدهار للاسلام السياسي في السودان | TahaElham | 08-13-03, 07:25 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-13-03, 07:38 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-14-03, 00:00 AM |
| Re:ما بين الدين والماركسية | TahaElham | 08-14-03, 07:29 AM |
| Re:ما بين الدين والماركسية | TahaElham | 08-14-03, 07:29 AM |
| Re: Re:ما بين الدين والماركسية | ودقاسم | 08-14-03, 10:12 AM |
| Re: Re:ما بين الدين والماركسية | Abdel Aati | 08-14-03, 04:49 PM |
| Re: Re:ما بين الدين والماركسية | ودقاسم | 08-14-03, 05:28 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | أحمد أمين | 08-14-03, 05:13 PM |
| ما بين الماركسية و الدين | TahaElham | 08-14-03, 06:46 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-14-03, 10:34 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | TahaElham | 08-15-03, 06:00 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | خضر حسين | 08-15-03, 08:29 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-15-03, 08:43 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | TahaElham | 08-15-03, 09:28 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | اسامة الخاتم | 08-16-03, 10:02 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-16-03, 10:45 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | abuguta | 08-16-03, 11:01 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-16-03, 02:58 PM |
 حتي لا نكون متناقضين مع ما نطرحه | TahaElham | 08-16-03, 11:25 AM |
| Re: حتي لا نكون متناقضين مع ما نطرحه | Bakry Eljack | 08-16-03, 04:41 PM |
| Re: حتي لا نكون متناقضين مع ما نطرحه | bayan | 09-25-03, 02:37 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-16-03, 05:53 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-16-03, 08:44 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | elsharief | 08-17-03, 04:05 PM |
| Re لماذا لا يكون التجديد بنفس اسلوب النبي (ص | TahaElham | 08-17-03, 02:48 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-17-03, 03:59 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | سودانوبس | 08-17-03, 08:14 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | سودانوبس | 08-17-03, 08:14 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Haydar Badawi Sadig | 08-17-03, 09:52 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-18-03, 11:22 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Abdel Aati | 08-18-03, 03:07 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Abdel Aati | 08-18-03, 03:10 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Abdel Aati | 08-18-03, 03:17 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | HOPELESS | 08-18-03, 04:05 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | مهيرة | 08-18-03, 07:41 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | خضر حسين | 08-20-03, 08:24 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-21-03, 09:34 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | TahaElham | 08-22-03, 09:12 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | مهيرة | 08-24-03, 00:59 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | اسامة الخاتم | 08-23-03, 10:09 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Abdel Aati | 08-24-03, 01:28 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Abdel Aati | 08-24-03, 01:34 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Abdel Aati | 08-24-03, 01:36 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | elsharief | 08-24-03, 03:54 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-25-03, 01:51 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | elsharief | 09-15-03, 09:30 AM |
| حول ضرورة تجديد فقه المرأة في الإسلام | Yasir Elsharif | 08-25-03, 04:45 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | TahaElham | 08-25-03, 08:59 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | TahaElham | 08-25-03, 08:59 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | مهيرة | 09-06-03, 12:04 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-26-03, 12:04 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Haydar Badawi Sadig | 08-26-03, 04:53 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Yasir Elsharif | 08-27-03, 10:00 AM |
| Reالعلاقة بين الرجل و المراة فبل الاسلام | TahaElham | 08-27-03, 03:54 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-27-03, 05:29 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Haydar Badawi Sadig | 08-27-03, 08:11 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | TahaElham | 08-28-03, 08:03 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 08-28-03, 12:31 PM |
| Re: تعدد الزوجات | TahaElham | 08-29-03, 06:10 AM |
| Re: تعدد الزوجات | HOPELESS | 08-30-03, 05:16 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 09-03-03, 09:46 AM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | Haydar Badawi Sadig | 09-03-03, 10:39 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 09-04-03, 09:42 AM |
 ما ملكت أيمانكم | Yasir Elsharif | 09-06-03, 12:34 PM |
| Re: ما ملكت أيمانكم | مهيرة | 09-06-03, 03:40 PM |
| Re: ما ملكت أيمانكم | Yasir Elsharif | 09-06-03, 08:08 PM |
| Re: ما ملكت أيمانكم | مهيرة | 09-06-03, 10:45 PM |
| Re: ما ملكت أيمانكم | Yasir Elsharif | 09-06-03, 11:53 PM |
| Re: تجديد الفكر ، أم تجديد الدين | ودقاسم | 09-06-03, 04:59 PM |
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Bakry Eljack
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