لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity" OR "National Identity"

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03-12-2010, 00:28 AM

حاتم علي
<aحاتم علي
تاريخ التسجيل: 11-04-2009
مجموع المشاركات: 1897

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Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q (Re: smart_ana2001)

    dear Smart

    let us 1st return to ground zero here

    the definition of Identity

    because i did not mean :

    Quote: If identity is just the nationally (on paper)


    What I am trying to say here before is :


    Quote:
    1. الإختلافات العرقية و الدينية و الثقافية لا تعني أن الإنتماء لهوية واحدة شاملة مستحيلاً ، فالهوية هي إحساس بالإنتماء لكيان معين يكون في اعلى اشكاله هو (الدولة) او (الأمة) فالقبيلة أو الطائفة الدينية او العرق هي أشكال (بدائية) للتعبير عن الهوية (ثقافياٌ) ، و الإنتماء لكيان جامع مثل (الدولة او الأمة) لا يلغي (الهويات الفردية) او تجلياتها (الثقافية) ، بل العكس هنا تجد جميع الثقافات فرصتها للنمو و الإرتقاء لأن الكيان الجامع لا يفاضل بين ثقافة أو اخرى أوبين عرق و عرق أو بين دين و دين . فلأساس هنا كيان واحد جامع هو الوطن يتم معاملة المنتمين إليه بالمساواة المبنية على المواطنة و امثلة لذلك:

    (أ) تجربة الولايات المتحدة الامريكية التي تستوعب كل عام اعداد مقدرة من المهاجرين لا يجري التمييز بينهم وفق العرق او المعتقد فالناس سواسية أمام القانون الامريكي و يشتركون جميعاٌ في بناء احلامهم الفردية عبر بناء الحلم الأمريكي الجامع.

    (ب) تجربة الوحدة الأروبية ، فالمعروف أن الاقطار الاوربية تاريخياٌ كان بينها حروب و عداوات شاملة مزقت العالم باسره قبل ان تمزقهم انفسهم شر ممزق و ما تاريخ الحرب العالمية الاولى و الثانية عنا ببعيد لكن نجح الاوربيون في توحيد انفسهم تحت راية الاتحاد الاوربي و تساموا على خلافاتهم السياسية و الدينية و العرقية.

    2. الدولة الحقة هي التي تخلق الهوية للأفراد القاطنين ضمن حدودها ، بمعني ان الدولة هي التي تشكل الهوية للافراد بإنتمائهم الكلي لها - لهويتها- بدون التنكر لهوياتهم المحلية و ثقافاتهم.


    sSo the American immigration and citizenship system - BY LAW - force the community there to accept and deal with all the new immigrants equally Without discrimination because of race, color, religion or ideology or cultural background

    BUT

    Laws can only help the new immigrants to find a good opportunity to be part of the society but the hard job here to be a real part of that society must be done by immigrant himself / herself because some of the immigrants immigrate to get better economical situations or to get a new passport (papers) to work with it in other part of the world or some of them are forced to leave their home lands for political or ethnic or religious persecution; in such cases those immigrants might made little efforts to be part of the society or to have a new identity.

    ALTHOUGH

    what you said here is different from the assumptions above:

    Quote: am a stranger, not because I isolate myself from the society. But.... because I have an accent, I have a strange name, a dress differently, and I look different. I go to a meeting and people joke about a TV show in the 90s, and I (off course) don’t get the joke. I go to another meeting and some people take some time to accept the idea that a Muslim black women from Africa is in that meeting. I get asked a lot if I am ever going back HOME again. Nobody asks my British boss that question.


    This is the real challenge here, a person find himself culturally different in a new society while he is trying to be part of it but unfortunately the society always point out to his variation, in such case usually (the strangers) as you named them do one of the followings:

    1. Isolate themselves culturally in their same similar culturally groups either ethnically or religiously groups (ghettos) , so they no longer feel different and they can create wide compensation communities which will develop themselves later to have power over community through electoral system in the form of pressure groups (lobbies) , for example.

    2. Try the Identification trick to grand themselves a good acceptance inside the community, Identification is defined as "tendency to imitate and or the process of imitating the behavior of an object . It may also denotes the process of merging emotionally, or the state of having so merged, with the same object" by the Dictionary of Social Sciences.

    Psychologists and Sociologists differentiate between two types of identification, idiopathic and heteropathic. In the first type, identification comes about “through the total eclipse and absorption of another self by one’s own”, whereas in the second type, “the identified is overwhelmed and hypnotically bound by the model.

    3. Changing their Identity and claim the new culture and totally melt into the new society When so many people in the community think that others will think on the same lines and behave accordingly, suddenly the community “tips” from its stable order before the cascade to a new stable order.

    David Laitin gives us a clear example of how identity changes. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the shrinkage of its borders Russian individuals, who found themselves foreigners in the communities they once dominated, were exerting in order to accommodate to the new realities.
    Russians in Astonia struggled to obtain the Astonian nationality. They started to learn the Estonian language, which they did not feel the need to learn before the collapse of the union, as the Estonian were compelled to speak Russian. Laitin concludes that the quest of these people to keep their families intact, and to avoid deportation, gave then an incentive for an identity shift. This in turn lays the foundation for the construction of an Estonian identity for their grandchildren, and that, as a community, they are moving towards an identity tip.






    This all happen because the nature of people themselves normally like to live in equilibrium. when they live in their native countries with their origin culture they feel that the world is completely stable. Identities do not come to subject but when they immigrate to new communities as for example in your case , they ask the new community to accept and recognize them with their old identities and culture differences and this is not something can be tolerated by law or logic it depends on general assessment of the community as for example :

    Quote: But in times of severe conflicts the center uses and often abuses the power of recognition. It can withdraw the umbrella from any of the peripheral social groups whenever it sees it necessary to do so.

    This actually had happened during World War 11, when the Japanese Americans were detained in concentration camps, for their oyalty to America was questioned by the center of the American identity. The selectivity of the center in using the power of recognition and misrecognition can be demonstrated by the fact that German Americans were not detained in the same scale, despite the fact that Germany was the major force of the uropean Axis.

    Thus the center decided to misrecognize the Japanese Americans during the war, and to restore recognition to them after the war.

    The same thing can be said about Britain, where the English identity represents the center of the British identity. It is noticed that the term English is frequently used by the media community in Britain when it means British, the matter which irritates nationalists in Scotland and Wales.

    It is also observed by the black British community that the mainstream British media some times refer to Afro-Caribbean athletes as "British" when they won medals for Britain, and as "Caribbean" when they lost.

    These examples illustrate the tensions between the center and the peripheries in each identity as well as the dynamics and processes of recognition and misrecognition that operate between the center and the peripheries.


    obtained from the same reference

    read it please

    http://www.sacdo.com/web/Categories/FeaturedArticles/Al...Northern%20Sudan.pdf

    (عدل بواسطة حاتم علي on 03-12-2010, 00:36 AM)
    (عدل بواسطة حاتم علي on 03-12-2010, 01:21 AM)

                  

العنوان الكاتب Date
لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity" OR "National Identity" abubakr03-11-10, 06:00 PM
  Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q smart_ana200103-11-10, 07:08 PM
    Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-11-10, 07:35 PM
  Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-11-10, 07:32 PM
    Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-11-10, 07:54 PM
      Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q smart_ana200103-11-10, 08:03 PM
        Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-11-10, 09:09 PM
      Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-11-10, 08:36 PM
        Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q smart_ana200103-11-10, 09:04 PM
          Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q منتصرمحمد زكى03-11-10, 09:31 PM
            Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-11-10, 09:53 PM
            Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q بدر الدين اسحاق احمد03-11-10, 09:58 PM
          Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-11-10, 09:47 PM
            Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q smart_ana200103-11-10, 10:26 PM
              Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q منتصرمحمد زكى03-11-10, 11:18 PM
                Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-12-10, 00:51 AM
              Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-12-10, 00:28 AM
                Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-12-10, 07:13 AM
                  Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q منتصرمحمد زكى03-12-10, 09:02 AM
                    Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-12-10, 04:18 PM
                      Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-13-10, 10:44 AM
                        Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q الامين موسى البشاري03-13-10, 03:28 PM
                          Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-13-10, 04:48 PM
                            Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q الامين موسى البشاري03-13-10, 05:34 PM
                              Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-13-10, 06:10 PM
                                Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q حاتم علي03-14-10, 03:25 PM
                                  Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-14-10, 04:52 PM
                                    Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q منتصرمحمد زكى03-14-10, 06:39 PM
                                      Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q الامين موسى البشاري03-14-10, 06:53 PM
                                        Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q الامين موسى البشاري03-14-10, 07:08 PM
                                          Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q abubakr03-14-10, 08:10 PM
                                            Re: لنقاش موضوعي :شنو يعني "هوية" او "هوية وطنية "What is "Identity&q منتصرمحمد زكى03-14-10, 09:10 PM


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