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Re: الى التى اكن لها (Re: sharnobi)
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3azeezati Aostaza Tamador,
What about Nyrere, Singoor, and Nelson Mandella You don't agree thier struggle and contibution toward freedom and human rights!!!
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: Tumadir)
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اولا...نحنا افارقة...ابا عن جد..و العروبية جات من زمن الاسلام....و بدليل انتشار الاسلام من زمن سيدنا و حبيبنا محمد ـ صلى الله عليه و سلم ـمنذ زيارته للحبشة...و في التاريخ...السودان كان جزء من تلك المنطقة في الماضي....ولكن...مع مرور الزمن...اتت علينا دول شبه الجزيرة العربية دخيلة....فتزاوجوا منا..منذ قديم الزمان....حينها بدانا نعد انفسنا كعرب...فهل ترى اريتريا يقول ان عربي؟ صوماليا؟جيبوتيا؟ حتى الجزائريون و المغاربة يقولون افارقة ـحتى الان ـولكن نحن السودانيين من زعم باننا عرب..ولكن قما قال سيدنا المصطفىـ لا فرق بين عربي ولا اعجمي الا بالتقوى....فهل نحن منصطون؟
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: tally)
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في تقديري أن المسألة لا تخرج عما هو ثقافي. هناك بطولات وأبطال أفارقة نعم لهم انجازات لا تخطئها عين نعم لا نذكرهم كثيرا نعم. الثقافة العربية هي التي تجذرت في وسط السودان وجزءا من شماله وغربه لكن في المقابل يكاد لا يكون لها وجود في أماكن أخرى حيث تسيطر ثقافات أخرى بالطبع، في تصوري أن الموضوع أعمق ويحتاج منا لكثير بحث وفيما يتعلق برؤيتي الخاصة يمكنني القول أننا مزيج خاص تشكل من جماع عدد من الثقافات التي عرفتها المنطقة عبر السنين.. .
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: banadieha)
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If any one moves out of Sudan, she/he will discover that she/he is not Arab. Some Sudanese Immigrants were when they came to America and realized how similar they were to African Americans, how far they were not very close to being middle eastern. In the Arabian countries, Arabs act prejedious towards whoever "mixed" and has less genes of Arabs. Why don't we look for our real roots and be "real"? ya3ni bel3arabi kida, ma 7aggo nitlassag feehum, ma bdooroona shadeed.
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عرب وأفارقة (Re: Tumadir)
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Tumadir,
This a prolonged controversial issue.
أتفق معك تماما في ما ذهبت اليه دعينا ننظر بتجرد لحقيقتنا(نحن) الذين نعتبر أنفسنا عربا ونقول أننا (عبابيس )وننظم الشعر والأهازيج ونفتخر ونتباهى بذلك في بلاد العرب لا يعتبروننا عربا، ويصنفنا البعض كـ (تكارنه) و.... الخ في بلاد الخواجات نصنف كـ (Black) دون أدنى شك ويجب ألا يحبطنا ذلك ويجب ألا نحاول الخروج من جلودنا، وهل السمرة عيب؟؟؟
ان ثمانون بالمائة (80%) من ملامح هؤلاء الذين يقولون أنهم عرب ، ملامح أفريقية ولا عيب في ذلك
لكن العيب الأكبر هو أننا لا نقر بتلك الحقيقة ونحاول أن (نلصق ) أنفسنا بأناس لا ننتمي اليهم شكلا وملامحا العرب دخلوا السودان قبل عبد الله بن أبي السرح وقبل الاسلام بقرون وهذا موضوع شائك وطويل، لكن ما يهمنا الآن هو أن هذا التزاوج العربي الزنجي نتج عنه هذا الشكل الذي يحاول أن ينكر الجزء الزنجي من تكوينه ويركز هلى الجزء العربي
يقولون من تكلم العرببة فهو عربي ، ويقصدون القيم والثقافة ..الخ ، لكن العرب أنفسهم يركزون على الجزء العنصري لهويتنا الأفريقية ويتندرون بانتمائنا اليهم
يجب أن نقبل شكلنا كما هو ونعترف بأننا لسنا عربا (خلص) كما نزعم ، فالانتماء للعروبة ليس فخرا والانتماء للزنوجة ليس عيبا ، وان كانت هنالك محمدة فاللغة العربية هي لغة القرآن ولنا شرف التحدث بها، لكن دون الشعور بالفخر (من ناحية عنصرية) لوجود قليل من الدم العربي فينا فالرسول (صلى الله عليه وسلم) يقول: لا فضل لعربي على عجمي الا بالتقوى
ثمانون بالمائة (80%) من ملامحنا أفريقية ويجب أن نفتخر بذلك دون التقليل من شأن الآخرين أو الشعور بالدونية أمام البعض الآخر
Tumadir
المذيع السوداني في نشرة تلفزيون السودان مساء الأربعاء الماضي قال يلتقي غدا في منافسات كأس العالم الفريق السعودي والكاميروني ، نتمنى الفوز للفريق السعودي؟؟ كانت ملامح المذيع أفريقية ، وجمهورية الكاميرون بها مسلمون فما الذي جعل المذيع يقول ذلك ؟
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Re: عرب وأفارقة (Re: Kalankakoal)
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El muzee3 has the sickness of being arab that I am talking about, Just read what this young lady in the list said about the Iraqian woman who lived with her in Euorope.
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: Tumadir)
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Hi Tamadur and the rest of the Gang, This is a very complicated and controversial issue. I'll try my best to summarize my responce. The land known today as Sudan was once a home to ethnic people known as Ku####es. The Ku####es - also pronounced Cu####e - lived in this region since the Early Stone Age (Paleolithic). As a result of climatic changes that took place in the early pleistocene those nomads froced to concentrate along the shores of the River Nile and in the Ethiopian Plataeu around the lakes. Such changes in settlement type led to changes in the way of life of the Ku####es. The ones occupied what the Egyptologists called Upper Egypt moved northward aand conqured the land of Lower Egypt which was settled by people of Midle Eastern origin. The unfication of the Ku####ic Upper Egypt and the Semitic lower Egypt resuled in the formation of the Pharonic Egypt which was called the kingdom of " The Two Lands". The Ku####ic-smetic mix had happened long time ago. The Ku####es of Wawat and upper Nubia had later succeeded to form another civilization later known as Kush, Nubia, and Ethiopia. The Ku####e of modern day Ethiopia were conqured by a wave of Semites coming through the Red Sea from Southern Arabia. They later formed what known in history as Axum or Abysinia. Some Historians don't believe in biological intermarriage of Ku####es and those of Midle East past and present, however they acknowledge the cultural intermarriage. They think the Ku####es of yesterday looked exactly the way they look today and which can be seen today in Northern Sudanese, Oromo, Somalians, and as far as Nigeria between the Sahara Desert and the tropical African forests. It's apparent that Christian Nubia was left alone by the Arab contorlled Egypt. The agreement they signed respected the soverenity of Nubia and stated the building of good ecnomic relations between the two countries. As a result Nubia survived the domination of Arabs in the adjacent Egypt and hence lasted for another six hundred years as a Christian indigenous kingdom. During this time Arab comercial caravans and merchants accessed Nubian markets and came in contact with the locals. The slaves sent to Egypt from Nubia, as part of the agreement, played a significant role in facilitating the works of the merchants specially when those slaves had been Islamized and Arabized. Their knowledge of the region and being bi lingual helped them in becoming equal partners in these commercial activities. The cultural influence of Arabs was gradual and peaceful but the Nubian traditions were dominant until the late 15th century A.D. By the begining of 15th century A.D the Mamlook - non Arabs or slaves - of Egypt had become most powerful politically and economically. They finally succeeded to eliminate the role of Arabs in ruling Egypt. To have the full political control the Mamlook encouraged and/or forced the nomadic Arab tribes to migrate south. The news brought by the merchants about the fertile plains in the land south of the desert encouraged one of the reblious Arab tribe known as Juhaynna to take the innitiative and moved to the land of gold and fertile plains. They raided the Christian kingdom of Maggarah several times until finally couldn't resist and collapsed. Many of this tribe didn't live on the shores of the Niles and they prefered the eastern and western plains. Another group of Arabs - their orgion and history is controversial - known as Abdallab contributed to the destruction of the last Christian kingdom { Alawa and its capital Soba) after their alliance with an African mysterious warriors known as Fonj. From the above historical demonstration one can say: 1\ Pure Arab blood does exist in Sudan in a very small scale. 2\ Cultural intermarriage and diffusion are the processes by which most northern Sudanese aquired Arab culture and way of life. 3\There is also a considerable number of northern Sudanese who are a product of bilogical intermarriage between the Arabs and Nubians. On light of this, Northern Sudanese culture is niether an Arab nor an African. In simple words it's Sudanese and unique to this land. We are African by association of land and physical outlook. We are Muslim by faith. We are Arabs by language and culural influence. But the most important we are Sudanese heirs of Kush and Nubia. regards
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: Abu Suzan)
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عزيزتي تماضر... اولآ انا سودانية أفريقية ،،اتحدث العربية وهذه محمدة لانها لغة القران .. عرب لا ، هم يتبرون من و لا يقبلوا ان نكون جزءمنهم احكي لك قصة واقعية ،، أعيش انا وسط الاوربين ولدي صديقة ارترية و أخري عراقية وثالثة بروندية .. في أحد الايام ذهبنا اربعتنا الي معاينة لوظيف ،،حينهاسألنا احد افراد المعابنيين قبل بدء المعاينات هل انم افارقة ام عرب ،نطت العراقيةو قالت له انا عربة و هم افارقة ،،وكنت انا حينها صامتة و مندهشة فقال لها اذانتي تتحدثي عربي و البقية لا ..فقالت له نعم لا لانها تذكرتني وقالت هي ايضا تتحدث عربي. وكتير ذي دا..... تحياتي خدارة
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: Abu Suzan)
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Abu Suzan: Thanks for the article. I enjoyed reading it. I don't have a problem with the Arabian existance, but I beleive it is mentally stronger than biologically. I know the superiourity of culture and how historically the domination of Arabs was spread all over most of the planet, but words like "mamaleek" shows the way Arab think of others. God himself discriminated between Arab and their language: Al a3rabu ashadu kufran. while he said: wa haza quoraanun 3arabiyun mubeen. So, we don't have to put owerselves down for the Quoran is written in Arabic words, this is today's world and it is getting wilder. Let us get some dignity. When you said we are Muslims, I guess you meant the Northern Sudanese only, because most of the Southerners who are pure Sudanese are not Muslims.
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: Tumadir)
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Hi Tamadur, Hey girl..I'm not angry. I love discussing such issues even if we don't agree. This why we are here on this board. I agree with you that Sudan isn't 100% Arab neither Arab Sudanese are the majority. There is many many people who are ethnically non Arab even though they are culturally Arabized. This is exactly my point of view. So Sudan is made up of Africans - the vast majority, Arabs - minority, and the rest are Arab-wanna-be or Arabized Africans. best regards
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Re: Intmaa' El Sudanyeen Lel 3orooba akthar min El Afrigyeeya? Limaza? (Re: Abu Suzan)
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saalmzzzzz ya Tumadir, awlan thanx alot 4 bringing up such a topic and am gonna sum up MY OPINION by saying: i speak the arabic language yes and am proud of that lakin bar'do am still an African. Thoma taniaaaaan and as said b4, al3arab dail most of them dont accept us as being arabs wo nazratom layna '3air wala ma kida????? wo ana klamy da bagolo min TAJAROB 3yda....... salamz 4 NOW wo thanx again
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