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 Re: حكومتنا الرشيدة تسئ الى المسلمين فى مشارق الأرض ومغاربها!! (Re: jini)
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What would the prophet consider the greater crime. Calling a teddy bear Mohammed, or punishing a 56 year old woman, with strong principles and a good heart, as well as fuelling anti Islamic feeling and giving hate groups more ammunition.
I'm not a scholar of Islam, but perhaps someone could enlighten me, did the Prophet ever forgive anyone?
Neil, Manchester,
If Sharia law is introduced in the UK (and which of our brave politicians will speak out against it?) UK women will suffer similar consequences.
proud to be British, Manchester, UK
Ugo, you write "Paul Jackson's reaction is to demonize a whole country and nation. Quite revolting actually..."
Well, a country can be judged upon how it treats the weakest and most vulnerable members of the community - and i'd say being a British woman is quite a weak and vulnerable position in Sudan - so yes, it is justified to judge the nation by the actions of it's government.
Ugo, London, UK
Marco, Birmingham, uk
This is a country where MORE THAN NINETY PERCENT of the women are subject to FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. I can have no respect for that. Faith is no virtue.
R. R. Limae, Heidelberg, Germany
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE ?
A 7 year old child named a teddy after himself. What could be more innocent than that ?
Realist, Newport, UK
Cut all aid to the Sudan. I cannot abide that my hard earned taxes are supporting this behaviour.
Insenced, woking,
What really annoys me about it is the fact that the woman was there to help people, i wouldn't surprised if she never returned after this ordeal is over.
Another thing that annoys is that the muslims are not angry because of the Bear, they are angry because she is from the western world, and immediately assume her to be a threat.
If anything it is these extremists who should punished, not her.
But I also ask people not to take their anger out on ordinary British muslims, they are probably as appauled as everyone else is.
Chris, Glasgow,
>Why is everyone so quick to jump to the conclusion that just because some Muslims act in these ways, all muslims must be bad, horrible people.
Because we also have our ignorant fools with hair trigger reactions in this country.
My take:
http://tinyurl.com/3xlx85
Matt Wardman, Derb, UK
It is not Gillian Gibbons who insighted racial hatred.
It is the sudanese government for prosecuting her that make me hate muslims.
Why do we let other races and religions walk all over the british way of life, despite not getting the same level of tolerance elsewhere.
I agree with Bruce Harper.
Jeff Cumpsty, Wirral, UK
It’s astounding how the issue of multi-cultural tolerance is still put forward as a legitimate consideration in this debate despite the truly horrific nature of these events. A woman is to receive public lashes & be presented publicly, bleeding, flesh torn from her back because she caused offence.
To acknowledge the individual “offence†caused in these circumstances is tantamount to accepting there is any grievance to be had at all. Once there is acknowledgment there follows justification & then precedent; “I will take offence because I canâ€. We arrive at today’s un-quantified situation whereby the perceived ‘offence taken’ is accepted as justification for aggression.
In Sudan they have the excuse of propaganda & ill-education. The UK has no such justification. Just as Faith is personal, so is offence. Believe what you believe & take offence at what offends YOU!
Offence is no justification for aggression; it is merely a reason for discussion. Tolerance works both ways
James, London,
JB
Islam doesnt say its right to cause pain to a child. Islam actually says that no matter what a child does, the child is totally innocent.
Islam doesnt stop women from shaking hands with men. Islam says that the woman must put her hand out first (the man cant put his hand out first, just incase the woman is to shy to shake hands).
Virtually every muslim woman I talk to, looks me in the eye (that is not a rule that exists in the Qura'n) and your comment is the first time I heard about it.
Stoning and lashing is not explicitly for women, men are stoned & lashed as well (equivalent to execution that is still performed in many western/christian countries) and can only be performed for some crimes if evidence proves the person guilty.
As to 'insists that gays should be thrown off of cliffs', that is not a rule that exists in the Qura'n, and I first heard about from your email.
Rather than taking what people say (or do!), I recomend you read the Qura'n and decide on islam from that.
A muslim, UK, Earth
awhat is this world coming to, it is only a teddy bear!!!!!!!!
A OTTER, dronfield, uk
How about this. Put all the muslims in one part of the world. The rest of us in another. They could have eg Africa. Right here you go - here's your new land, perform as much Sharia as you want. Leave the rest of us alone.
We won't try to educate them anymore, no handouts. Repatriate every single hardcore Muslim from everywhere to the new land of opportunity.
Or maybe that is what they are planning for the UK?
Bruce Harper, Stafford,
Paul Jackson's patronising viewing of Sudan as "starving" is particularly pathetic. Actually Sudan has an impressive GDP rate growth of up to 12% yearly. In Karthoum, its booming capital city, skyscrapers are popping up out of nowhere built on the strength of this country's huge oil revenues. Would he mind looking images.google for Karthoum and see for himself?
The imminent lashing of a British woman (yes, thet are a superior breed above the laws and traditions of Sudan) is regretable yet Jackson's reaction is to demonize a whole country and nation.
Quite revolting actually...
Ugo, London, UK
Ridiculous! feel sorry for decent Muslims, this situation don't do them any favours.
This poor lady is innocent and should be let free without charge,
As far as Sudan goes, the sudanese government are throwing stones to their own roof, donations to help the poor Sudanese people might fall drastically because of this,
M, Bucks, uk
Now is the time for our Foreign Office to prove that they are not totally useless and not "just for foreigners" and actually help this poor innocent woman. They should put extreme pressure on this nasty bunch of clothheads, to the extent of expelling Sudanese diplomats and starting to deport Sudanese nationals in Britain until this appalling regime (the heroes of Darfur) start to come to their senses and release this unfortunate Briton. Time was when this sort of gross behaviour towards British nationals got instant action - but you have to be American now to receive that sort of attention. Living in France, I actually asked UK consular staff for some advice recently. I am sorry I disturbed their slumbers.
david, Ligneyrac, France
When will the rational people speak up?
It's a child's toy? Does ANYONE really believe that this teacher was deliberately trying to insult Islam?
?
David, Los Angeles, USA
What rubbish Razan! Of course it isn't illegal - let alone treason - to stick a stamp upside down. What a stupid thing to say.
We are constantly scolded and told that there are hardly any extremists and most Muslims are 'moderate'. If this lot are an example of 'moderate' Muslims, then frankly I despair.
Caroline, London , UK
Words just fail me, and for those who know me this is so so unusual. We welcome all creeds,colours and beliefs here and yet Gillian Gibbons goes out there to Sudan teach children and involved with naming a teddy bear that Sudanese consider to be so serious thast she could receive 40 lashes. Surely ,surely the Muslims in our country can influence this decision and prevent this . If they agree with the decision then may our God help them.
puzzled, Worcester, UK
IT is tempting to say that this teacher's plight is simply more evidence of the unreformed state of the Islamic religions, and the unworkable state of multiculturalism generally, when compared to the Christian religions and Anglo culture.
THAT said, I can recall being given "six of the best" with a leather strap for misbehavior in class, along with many others, by what to me seemed psychotically inclined "Christian brothers" who were assembled under the holy name of St Bede. We were in metropolitan Melbourne, not Africa. So I think there is a tendency for teachers to be power crazed individuals who enjoy inflicting pain, because we have made education itself compulsory by law. If something[education] is any good it should stand on it's own merits, and not be imposed.
Phil Colquitt, New Farm, Australia
People have said "I'm sure she didn't mean to offend, so she should be free."
Presumably, by the same token, she should be arrested if it turns out that she actually did want to offend?
How can "causing offence" be a criminal act?
Rude? Yes.
Anti-social? Sure thing.
Awkward at the mosque? Totally.
Sackable? Maybe.
But criminal? Never, never, never, never, never.
Nobody has a birthright to not be offended, and just because religion is involved doesn't make it any different.
Is your God so insecure that he wants you to make laws against name-calling?
We should be shouting from the hilltops against this. Blasphemy laws are a gross violation of basic human freedoms.
James Cane, London, UK
Shahir:
1. Two wrongs (or fifty) don't make a right.
2. The examples you cite are all intra-national, therefore only the business of the country in question. A citizen of a country is subject to its laws, and the proper response to insane laws is to work productively to change them. (Not to justify one set of insane laws by pointing out that other laws are also insane -- humans are fallible, but we are supposed to be striving to better ourselves, not sink to the lowest common denominator.)
3. This current matter is international. This teacher is one of ours. We are on her side. The end.
Nicole K, Astoria at the moment,
Insighting racial hatred by naming a teddy bear mohammed? Don't they think that they are insighting more racial hatred themselves by making such a big issue of this! Why on earth is our government allowing this to happen, they should've had her out of there by now. How dare they treat our people so badly when all we do is welcome people from all over the world to walk all over us. Its time things changed and we treated the rest of the world how they treat us.
Claire, Liverpool, England
There is a huge difference in what a religion says and how people CHOOSE to interpret it. so please kindly avoid judging the entire religion based on the way people apply it. Some of the comments here are very negative towards Islam and ofcourse are perfectly entitled to be but why don't you get an english translation of the Quran and read what it says first? There's no better opinion than an informed one.
I'm a British Muslim and proud to be both. In response to some people who say why don't Muslims speak up, maybe it's because it seems that a lot of the people here have already made up their minds about our religion and therefore us, not just the extremists or the ill-educated but ALL of us!
But it's ok because I appreciate that for every person here who's been judgemental and somewhat narrow-minded, there are loads of people who aren't.
As for the situation in Sudan, I think it's completely wrong and un-Islamic but that's my opinion and interpretation of Islam.
Shaina, Leics,
This is ridiculous. Today I named my computer 'Mohammad' - what are you going to do ?
You make such a big fuss out of minor issues like this, but on more grave issues like morality, corruption, bribery and even homicide, it's all OK. Look at the level of corruption and indiscipline that manifests Pakistan today - a Muslim country. If religion has taught anything to these leaders (present and past) this country would be a more serene and peaceful place today. But no, even Sister Benazir filled her pockets and went to live a good life in England when she finished her spell.
But this is all fine. The biggest current affair on the Islamic calendar today is the naming of a teddy bear as Mohommad. For all we know, this teacher may have not even thought of the prophet when she did this, but merely of the boy in the class who had the same name. Mohommad is a common Muslim name - what do U have to say about Mohommads who are drug addicts & womanisers ? They get sentenced too? A JOKE to me
CSRG, Setúbal, Portugal
Why is everyone so quick to jump to the conclusion that just because some Muslims act in these ways, all muslims must be bad, horrible people. For every extremist, theres way more peaceful muslims. For all the people making comments and encuraging this sort of thing, or protesting violently against this 'blasphemy'; theres millions of Muslims who would condemn it without a second thought. The difference is simply that we are not on the front pages or in the headlines. We love our country and our religion tells us to respect the law and rules of the country we live in. I can't explain or excuse the actions of SOME (not ALL) muslims but then why should I have to? I've done nothing wrong.
Shaina, Leics,
Shahir -- is this teacher Russian? No. So what's your point? We are talking about a UK national. You can say all kinds of things about Jesus if you like in the UK, today, right now -- last I heard, "South Park" was still airing in the UK?
(And if you want to get technical about it, even back then, the examples you provide were punished for their own actions and not the actions of SEVEN-YEAR-OLD MINOR CHILDREN.)
Pam, Hackensack, NJ
(Er... not to mention that generally, anyone citing Wikipedia sort of automatically loses the argument. Wikipedia is a nice source, but since anyone can sign on and edit it and add whatever they want, regardless of age, prejudice, or education leve, the website is not the end all and be all of trustworthiness and should never be regarded as an "expert source." You really should find the relevant White Paper, to be taken seriously.)
Pam, Hackensack, NJ
So let me get this straight: Mohammed doesn't mind if you slaughter thousands of innocent, helpless people in his name, but will have a fit if you use his name for something close to a child's heart. Hmmm. In the days of the crusades the Moslems were celebrated for their tolerance, their education and their sophisticated civilisation. Now, sadly, it seems no longer a religion but a tool for the uneducated, the poor, the ignorant and the vicious to instil hatred and fear amongst themselves and everyone else. Diplomacy should fix this problem, but we must remember that hatred likes to spread and proliferate, so diplomacy must be backed up by a might that will not be intimidated or dissuaded from its path to right thinking and humane behaviour.
Michelle Tonkin, Sydney, Australia
Can someone please tell me exactly what great things Mohammed actually did and what kind of a person he was.
He might have liked the idea of a cuddly cute teddy bear being named after him by an equally cute 7 year old kid for all we know??
Julia, London, UK
I wonder what Mohammed himself would think of all this nonsense. I'd like to think that he'd be ashamed
Rob, Wallasey,
How long before that country comes begging the West for help when the next famine arrives?.
It's time they moved into the 21st century.
Gordon Perrygrove, Birmingham.,
Perhaps a generous offer could be made to purchase Mrs Gibbon’s freedom - as a large enough sum might be what is required to absolve her of any wrong doing.
A tempting offer of prize camels, fine fabrics from the Far East, incense and myrrh and wads of US dollars in cash, might just do the trick.
Of course a genuine apology - to all who have been offended; the children, the teddy, the country, the world of Islam.
And then get the good woman out of there.
Mia, London,
if you go to Sudan dont name a teddy bear Mohammed.
Alf Parelli, London, UK
Why is it ok to name your child Muhammad but not to allow the child to name a toy after himself? Says it all about the mindset of that culture I think and shows why the west is right to be wary of too close engagement. Obviously the cultural differences are so vast that we are effectively living on different planets.
maria, sydney, australia
enter Wikipedia, type 'Blasphemy'.Found this=
" Blasphemy laws in England...person in Britain to be imprisoned for blasphemy was John William Gott on 9 December 1921. He had three previous convictions for blasphemy...comparing Jesus to a circus clown. He was sentenced to nine months' hard labour. In 1977, Denis Lemon...found guilty of blasphemous libel...fined 500 pound... nine months imprisonment..."
shair, hampshire, UK
ps for Shabir,
The Holocaust happennes...so really as say the American,if you can live with us,leave us!
Angel, Jersey, UK
Jun 2005=
A British evangelical organisation, Christian Voice led street protests against the BBC screening of Jerry Springer – The Opera, in which Jesus wearing a nappy says "I'm a bit gay". Christian Voice published the home addresses and telephone numbers of several BBC executives on their web site. This led to one of these people receiving death threats. Another organisation, the Christian Institute attempted to level blasphemy charges against the BBC
Christian Voice says the show is deliberately offensive and provocative to Christians.
The BBC received more than 60,000 complaints over the broadcast of the hit stage show in January
More than 7,940 people complained to the media regulator Ofcom before it was shown on BBC Two, followed by a further 8,860 afterwards.
link= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4606085.stm
shair, hampshire, UK
In march 2005…Moscow court… January 2003 organisers of an art exhibition guilty of inciting religious hatred and fined them 100,000 roubles (£2,000) each… The Russian Orthodox Church had condemned director Yuri Samodurov and his colleague Lyudmila Vasilovskaya…court ruling…the show was "openly insulting and blasphemousâ€â€¦Coca-Cola logo with Jesus' face shown next to it, with the words: "This is my blood"… was also a sculpture of a church made from vodka bottles.
BBC.
shahir, hampshire, UK
This is ridiculous and it just shows that many Muslims must think that Prophet Muhammad is so weak a person that naming a teddy bear with his name will cause him severe damage. Is that what they are saying ?. Or are they saying really that they want any excuse whatsoever and however stupid in order to try and demonstrate against the West ?. Either way Prophet Muhammad must be laughing at how stupid SOME of his followers are.
Stearn, Paris, France
if the international community had any balls, they would have removed the dictatorship in sudan years ago. instead, they let them get away with murder, torture and oppression. we are all shamed.
this barely registers on the scale of evil in sudan.
that said, since it is the subject of this column, of course it is ridiculous that she should be punished for unintentionally causing offence to some oversensitive deluded idiots. no one mocks islam like the moslems.
jem, london, uk
easy call... make a hostage situation and refuse to release the staff of the Sudanese embassy / consul until the Sudanese state releases the teacher. I know it's pretty radical and highly illegal and improper, but well, fight fire with fire. it's not as if she'll escape the lashes otherwise - i.e. 'diplomatically'.
Marco, Birmingham, uk
Stuff like this just gives the West to be even more bigoted and self righteous about their own ideals and beliefs. Yeah religious Islamic zealots are bad, but so are the homophobic Christian ones in America - but then I would argue that these wingnuts have missed the point of religion completly. Religion can and is a powerful tool when used in moderation - giving hope to the hopeless and support to those that need it.
So please don't jump on the bandwagon and justtry to abolish religion - just remove the fanatics.
For the record I am currently Agnostic (means I believe in god but have not chosen a particular religious path) although I do go to a Christian church from time to time.
Justin, London,
Should it not be the relevant Sudanese authorities on trial instead for making their own religion an utter laughing-stock?
Phil Williams, Shrewsbury, UK
Well, at least she wasn't a rape victim. The punishment for that "offense" is 200 lashes.
robroy, Colorado,
Sudan - crocodile country of the world - big body, tiny brain.
R Baker, Bracknell, UK
Sudan failed to build on what it should have learnt of civilised values from 60 years of relatively benign British colonial rule, and has since its independence more than 50 years ago denied democracy to, and engaged in almost continuous brutality against large segments of its own subjects, and belligerency against many of its neighbours.
All this while holding out the begging bowl and expecting unquestioning infrastructural and humanitarian aid from various international agencies. Its only international friend is China, and only then because of its oil.
I feel enormously sorry for the Sudanese peoples, but this failed state is of no strategic or economic value to us, and our Government should take the following drastic steps now:
1) Order our well-meaning relief and other workers home
2) Stop all UK-sourced relief projects and aid to the country
3) Call in their Ambassador, give him " 40 lashes" and tell him to pack up and go home
Gordon Alexander, Frome,
Every time some idiotic event like this happens in a sharia-run theocracy, the jihadists lose another skirmish in the battle for hearts and minds.
William, London,
During the Don Pacifico Incident Lord Palmerston said "As the Roman, in days of old, held himself free from indignity, when he could say, Civis Romanus sum [I am a Roman citizen], so also a British subject, in whatever land he may be, shall feel confident that the watchful eye and the strong arm of England will protect him from injustice and wrong.". He then blockaded Piraeus for months on the behalf of a single British subject over what could be deemed a trivial case regarding compensation.
David Milliband would do well to bear that in mind when he meets the Sudanese Ambassador tomorrow morning. He has an opportunity to retreive a bit of self respect for this country, make a name for himself and put all Labour's woes in the shade all at one fell swoop. I wonder if he wil grasp the nettle.
Simon, Chatham, Kent
This is totally revolting. This experienced and cabable teacher gave up her post in a UK school to support Third World education, a thoroughly altruistic move. Why do representatives of Islam, never mind governments let themselves be drawn into such superficial and naive political correctness.
SB UK
stephen barnett, Cheshire, UK
If Sudan looked in their jails, I'm sure they will find much more sinister people with the name than an innocent teddy bear.
The "teddy bear" name came from a famous President.
Les, Los Angeles, USA
The Sudanese government has completely violated the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. Not that I much admire the UN for all of its meddlesomeness, but this time such a blatant violation of its principles deserves to be called out.
Dave, Phoenix, AZ, USA
I hope this sends a clear message to us Westerners that the Sudanese would prefer that we stay out of their country. If you still really want to visit a violent, poverty-stricken, barren sand pit hundreds of years behind the modern age, then try some place that would appreciate you a bit more, like the Yemen maybe.
I met a black Sudanese who was full of praise for the good works done by the British, such as the education he would not have otherwise had. He also had many horror stories about treatment by the Arabs who run the country. It is a shame.
Paul, London, UK
Apologising would be an insult to the free world. The British government need to show these primitives that their barbarism will not be tolerated on our citizens and appropriate, severe action needs to be taken if this poor woman is punished.
Steve, Birmingham, England
Darfur, Darfur, Darfur.
The first enemy of Islamic fundamentalists is muslims, the second is everyone else.
How many muslims did they kill when overthrowing the democratic government?
It's them or us.
Tony, Hull, UK
Stop all aid now
It will focus their minds. Taking Western aid may be an insult to Islam, so stop it now and their Islamic neighbours can help...simple
Andy, London,
Isn't religion wonderful? I'm glad I'm out of it.
Paul, Portsmouth,
This whole situation echoes well with Jeremy Clarksons column this past Sunday. We have lost our national identity and international credibility. Its not that long ago that whilst the thought of doing something like this to a British Subject may have been there, the actual audacity to carry it out would not have been.
I agree with Peter, maybe a couple of battleships on 'Manouvers' in the vicinity are required - maybe it is time to start rattling the British sword again instead of apologising for almost everything our forefathers did - Just imagine the sort of place the world would be if they hadnt.
Paul, Ajax, ON, Canada
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