دعواتكم لزميلنا المفكر د.الباقر العفيف بالشفاء العاجل
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 Beja Women
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Dear all,
Can people talk about marginalisation without analysing it and the causes behind it? One example I wish people can discuss here is the poor state and marginalisation of Beja women, will it be correct to discuss the huge sufferings of Beja women without first discussing the huge suffering of all Beja people including? Men, women and children, they all endure the suffering, for this reason people should base their discussion on marginalisation, what is it, how it is lived by Beja people and the causes for it, then come to women, because only then we will be able to know why women are discriminated against in that severe way!
I am sorry I wanted to continue discussing this issue somewhere else, but I did not like the title of the issue and I hated very much the reaction to the title, I have made it clear to myself, I will never participate in any post that uses bad language or silly ideas,
Muna Khugali
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Muna Khugali)
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معك حق .
من المستحيل مناقشة قضية هامة مثل التهميش الذي يعاني منه انسان شرق السودان وسط الشتائم التي لاتخدم للحوار أي قضية ...
ومن الخطل أيضا النظر الي الواقع المزري الذي ترزح فيه المرأة البجاوية بمعزل عن تهميش المركز للاطراف , ذلك التهميش الذي لايفرق بين أمرأة أو رجل , طفل أو شيخ هرم ..
موضوعك ان طرح للنقاش الموضوعي الجاد فسيكون له حظ واسع و لكن في اعتقادي في البدء بجب أن يتملك القراء و المهتمون بعضا من المعلومات عن واقع الحال هناك .. وياحبذا لو كانت هنالك احصائيات وأرقام تبين حقيقة الوضع ومن ثم مقارنتها بمايحظي به المركز , حتي نكون علي يقين من أن التهميش واقعة حقيقية .وبالتالي ننتقل بالحوار من الشعار العام الي التركيز حول قضايا محددة مدعومة بالحقائق .. وبالطبع الدعوة للجادين و المهمومين بماعرف بقضايا " التهميش" فهذا الاقليم من السودان حظه قليل من الدراسات التي تعكس حاله و بالتالي حظه أقل في كل برامج الاحزاب السلطوية و المعارضة بيمينها و يسارها..
سأتابع مستجدات هذا البوست وان فتح الله علينا بشيء يفيد الحوار , سأشارك به ..
مع تحياتي وتقديري
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Re: Beja Women (Re: ياسر خيري)
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Dear ustaz Yasir,
I agree with you, the whole Sudan is discriminated against but some places are lucky to have a little bit of this or that, for instance, even in Khartoum, where displaced are discriminated against, they have to take transport to go to hospital,because the service is not available, but one element here we must note is the availability of transport, even though the money for transport is hardly available, but in Beja my dear, people die if they are ill,sometimes, they may not even attempt to seek medication in other villages, because of lack of means, Once I attended the death of a woman, she had fever, they wanted to take her to another village who had a nurse, but a camel or a donkey was not available for that long trip let alone a car! we always remember the west and the south when we talk about marginalisation but we never talk about Beja, of course we cannot say the marginalisation is always a political one, but one way to kill the social, economic, cultural marginalisation should be eradicated through the politics,
let us discuss these issues with great patience, please, if you have information as suggested earlier, bring it with you next post, thanks for your contribution
Muna.
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Khalid Eltayeb)
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Thanks Ustaz Khalid for your contribution, Yes you are right about information, most of us know a little about Beja. when I first visited the Beja land I was stunned to see the huge differences between us in the north and them in the east, I could not believe what my eyes, how could governments leave their people suffer this way? when I sat with women, I blamed myself for that situation , but I blamed more sudanese female having leading positions in political parties and civil society organisations and those who speak in conferences, I hated our discourse, we always talk about women status in Sudan with great exagiration, it seems we talk only about ourselves in the north even when we refer to women's rights in laws, we do not know that there are differences between laws and enforcement of laws, we ignore that there are women who lead a total different life from ours, a life full of suffering, illness, illiteracy and poverty, because they did not have the opportunties we had in the centre. I feel bad when I see my sisters in the Beja continue to lead such a miserable life, and I am unable to do a thing, among the causes for that is the fact that suffering is lived by all Beja, I cannot say women live without education, while there are no schools for boys except for Basbar school. I cannot continue discussing women dying when they are giving birth while medical centres were closed in many of the villages because of political conflicts and also because of the war.
There are a lot to be said, I will do my best to come back with some scattered information!
Muna
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Muna Khugali)
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Hello Muna, for notes all rural women suffering poverty have had a devastating impact on women's lives. For a long time now, rural women have been marginalised in many spheres of life.there are exploitation and humiliation of rural women,and even the women shared this I mean Their humiliation, But the fight against the marginalisation of women demands, as a first step, the clarification of our ideas. second step, There's need to get to the heart of this
marginalisation.The fight against the marginalisation of women requires action on several essential levels. First of all, a political line of action must be laid down. For women to successfully fight their marginalisation, there must be a conscious political commitment
that will it be possible to get rid of the system of marginalisation
Anwar Ahmed
(عدل بواسطة Anwar Ahmed on 12-21-2004, 06:10 AM)
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Anwar Ahmed)
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,Hello Anwar,
I agree with what you said, there is a relativism in marginalisation, this practiced against women in the cities is different than that practiced against women in the rural areas, even within the rural areas marginlization is different, for instance marginalisation practiced against Beja women is different from that one practiced in Shemalia, you know why? there are of course many elements, but let me give you one, because in Shemalia women may find a little bit of support from their families, while in Beja families they got absolutely nothing to offer, do you know that they live in most of the time on Dome leaf and lalaub?
I also want to say, that there is no way that we improve women's position without improving the whole society, for example, could women's movment (s) in the north make great success without taking its position and play its part in the general political movement in Sudan? can we isolate the women's movement from the general political movement and expect success?
thanks for your contribution, but hope to see you again in this post with more discussion,
Muna
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Muna Khugali)
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Hello Muna again the most bad things some of rural women do not feel the need to get rid of their marginalisation and exploitation is a paltry argument which cannot stand up to analysis. Women they not feel their subjection, they not feel the need to change their situation. For this reason is very difficult for us to get rid of women marginalisation What happens is that the domination imposed by society, by stifling their initiative, often prevents them from expressing their aspirations, often prevents them from thinking of how to wage their struggle we want to fight women marginalisation Just as a plant needs to strike roots in the ground in order to grow, and we want from those women take care of this plant by themselves.
thanks
Anwar Ahmed
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Anwar Ahmed)
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Dear Anwar,
Why do you think women do not want the change? What are their causes for that? Is it because of the culture and mainly the patriarchal culture that brings values of its own? Is it the fear from strangers? Is it the lack of knowledge to rights?
Or are there other reasons? In Beja women live in a close society, with a very conservative culture, in villages where I had worked, women do not talk to strangers or men, women don't and cannot visit a clinic where the nurse is a man which is the case in all times, women may get a little religious education from Shikha in the massjid but this is all. So if women cannot be examined by men, why not have female nurses and midwives?
I would like to say women are not in position to protest, or to accept or to refuse, the whole situation is severe, and within this situation there is a strong dominant male culture and women cannot and dare not to think to rebel against it, simply it is not in their hands and it is not in their husbands hands either the way we might think. If Beja people were in different position, the status of their women would have been also different even with a dominant patriarchal culture. Why do Beja men fear the education of their women? Because they themselves did not have education, they do not appreciate it the way others do, can we blame them? If you live in isolated society you fear strangers, and education is a stranger. The situation is slightly different in Garora than that of Hamsh Koreb, Garora was considered a city, it had its modest civil service, and a primary school for girls and another one for boys were built, after the war of 1999 when Garora was captured for sometime, the schools were closed, and when it was liberated, the two schools became one and those who were still in Garora from boys and girls sat in the same class. People in Garaora were able to change to some extent, their ideas about female’s education developed to the better. In my class I had women of 50 years old, willing to learn although that was almost impossible mainly because of the language, I taught in Arabic and education should be delivered in their language. The point I want to make here, governments have helped the negative culture to prevail, this has affected all society and of course women suffer more, we continue,
Muna
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Anwar Ahmed)
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العزيزة : منى
لا شك أنها قضية هامة تلك المتعلقة بما يمكن تسميتها بـ ( المرأة البجاوية)
ولكن الأ تتفقي معي أن المسألة ـ في شكلها العام ـ هي جزء من مأساة كبرى
يعيشها الانسان السوداني بصرف النظر عن كونه امرأة او رجل ؟؟ ..
فأنا أتقف معك في ما تفضلت به ..خاصة ربماالاعلام ـ في كثير من الأحيان ـ يتجاهل
هموم ومشاكل المراة تلك التي تكابد وحدها في ما درج البعض على تسميته بالمناطق
المهمشة وهي المناطلق البعيدةعن متناول الآلة الاعلامية .. وبالتالي تكون مأساتها مضاعفة بالفعل .. ومن هنا تنشأ اهمية موضوعك هذا .. حيث يلفت النظر لواحدة من قضايا ملحة قد تضيع تحت الأرجل في زحمة توالي الأزمات التي تعصف بوطن مختطف اسمه السودان
يجد نفسه امام التحدي الأكبر والمتمثل في أن يكون هذا السودان أو لايكون !!!!!!.
الله يديك العافية .
خضرعطا المنان
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Re: Beja Women (Re: خضر عطا المنان)
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Yes Khidir I agree with you, Media is part of the problem, but which media we are talking about now? definitely with the existing media nothing will be brought to our attention, because of the censorship on one hand and lack of resources and desire from the media people on the other hand. How many people you think will take the burden and go to Beja land to be educated about people's condition and miserable status there? how many of our politicians have ever been in south Sudan or in Hamsh Koreb? these days people struggle for information in Khartoum, let alone visiting the war zone areas, thus the marginalisation continues, for this reason I see the internet is a good means of education despite the fact that the majority of Sudanese do not have access to it. I agree with you that Beja problems cannot be addressed on the base of gender on its first analysis, a deeper analysis is needed to address the routs of the marginalisation.
Muna
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Muna Khugali)
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الاخت مني خوجلي
كماذكرت سابقا و أكدتي في ردك أن الكثير من السودانيين يجهلون الكثير عن البجا . أصلهم و تأريخهم وواقعهم وتنظيماتهم الجهوية و السياسية ودور متعلميهم في الحياة السياسية السودانية ... و لابأس ان سمحتي لي بأن اورد هنا جانبا من مقال يتحدث عن البجا كنت قد تحصلت عليه في زمن سابق من احدي المواقع في الانترنت تخونني الذاكرة الآن في تحديده ... هدفي هو الحصول علي أكبر قدلر من المعلومات و تجميعها وبذلك يمكن أن يتوفر لنا حد معقول من المعلومة تساعد و تعين المتحاورين .... وأرجو أن نستطيع معا تغذية البوست بمايفيد قكرته ويدعم الحوار الموضوعي فيه ... و بالتأكيد سأعود بالمزيد ...
يبلغ تعداد قبائل "البجا" حوالي أربعة ملايين نسمة، يتركز أغلبهم في السودان، ويعيش جزء كبير منهم في إريتريا وأثيوبيا ومصر.
و"البجا" حاميون من نسل "كوشي بن حام"، وتتفرع لقبائل عدة على رأسها "الهدنروة"، وأهم مدنهم "ستكات كسلا هيا" في شرق السودان، و"الأمارأر" في "سلّوم" و"بورتسودان" في "كسلا" و"العبابدة" في "شلاتين" و"القصيرة" في "حلايب"، و"أبو رماد" و"عطيرة" في "طوكر"، و"كسلا" و"الشواك" و"الحباب" في "قرورة"، و"عقيق" و"نقفه" و"أغوردات" و"السواكينه" في "سواكن" و"بورتسودان".
لغة البجا
هي لغة حامية عريقة استطاعت الاستمرار رغم التأثيرات اللغوية، خاصة من جانب اللغة العربية، وما زال "البجا" يتحدثون لغتهم دون أن تطرأ عليها أية تغيرات، خاصة في أسماء عناصر الطبيعة وأعضاء الجسم والأدوات المستخدمة في الزراعة والعمل وأسماء الأعلام وعناصر الحياة والميلاد والزواج والموت, وأسماء الحيوانات، وتتفرع لغتهم إلى لهجات عديدة.
ويتحدث "البني عامر" رغم أنهم فرع رئيسي للـ"بجا" لغة "التقراي"، وهي لغة سامية، ويتحدث "الحباب" اللغة "التقرينية".
ومن عاداتهم أن يطلق الرجل شعر رأسه، ويضفّر الجزء الخلفي منه، ولا يستخدمون خلالا يسمونه (أبو داي هلال) وهو من قرن التبتل أو الخشب، وإذا لم يضفر شعره يستخدم خلالا من الخشب بثلاث ريش، وهم يدهنون الرأس بالودك والدهن. يلبس الرجل القميص و"الصديري" والسروال الذي يسمونه "السّر بادوب" ويتلفح بالثوب، ويحمل سلاحه معه دائمًا.
أما النساء فعند الزواج تمشط العروس رأسها نزولا من مفرق الرأس حتى الأطراف، وتضاف خصلتان تضفران في مقدمة الرأس دلالة على زواج المرأة وحلية ذهبية يسمونها مرود، وتلبس المرأة "القرباب" و"الصديري" أو جلبابًا عليه ثوب سارٍ يربط في الخصر ويغطي الرأس.
وتتزين المرأة بلبس زمام كبير الحجم من الذهب، وتلبس سوارا في كل يد، وتلبس حجلين في القدمين من الفضة، وفي أذنيها حلقين من الذهب يسمى الواحد منها "تلالا".
تاريخهم
تقول دائرة المعارف البريطانية: إنهم مجموعة من القبائل المتجولة، والتي تحتل منذ أربعة آلاف سنة قبل الميلاد أو أكثر الجبال الواقعة بين البحر الأحمر ونهر عطبرة ونهر النيل.
وكانت منطقتهم جاذبة لأهميتها الجغرافية؛ فهي المدخل الشرقي لإفريقيا عبر موانئهم القديمة: "بأضع" "عيذاب" "سواكن". وفي فترات متباعدة كانت المنطقة مركزًا لهجرات من مختلف الأرجاء، خاصة من "سبأ" و"البلي" جنوبي مصر، كما هاجرت إليها قبائل "جهينة" و"همزان" و"كندة" و"لخم" و"الأزد" و"جزام" و"ربيعة" و"مضر" و"هوازن" و"بني سليم" بعد الفتح الإسلامي للمنطقة، وبعضهم اختلط بأهلها كربيعة وجهينة وبعض شعوب آسيا كالهنود من خلال مرور تجارتهم عبرها، واستقر فيها بعض الحجاج المسيحيين، وهم في طريقهم إلى بيت المقدس من الداخل الإفريقي والحبشة.
حارب "البجا" جيرانهم من النوبة والفراعنة مرارًا، وحاربوا البطالسة والرومان والدولة الإسلامية، ولهم مواقف مشهورة في حربهم ضد "إكسوم"، وتحالفوا مع الملكة "زنوبيا" ملكة "تدمر" في القتال ضد الرومان في مصر وطردهم الرومان من مصر في 272 م.
اسم البجا
تتفق أغلب المصادر على أن اسم "البجا" أطلقه العرب على سكان المنقطة إلا أن "البجا" يفضلون أن يطلقوا على أنفسهم اسم "بداويت" باعتباره الاسم الذي يتمتع بسند من لغتهم عكس "البجا" الذي لا يعني شيئًا.
وانتقل "البجا" من الوثنية إلى المسيحية، ثم الإسلام، وهم يعتنقون الإسلام الصوفي؛ وذلك لطبيعته المُيسَّرة، وهم شديدو التمسك بتبعيتهم لشيخ الطريقة، وينتشر في مناطقهم تعليم القرآن، وهم يعتقدون في كرامات الأولياء، ويزورون أضرحتهم، ويهدون إليهم الهدايا، ويوفون بالنذور، والنساء يؤلفن أشعارًا بلغتهم في مدح الأولياء.ملحوضة : اعتمدت معلومات المقال على إصدارة بدوايت (نمط الحياة) العدد الثالث سبتمبر 1998 والتي تصدرها جمعية الثقافة البجاوية الدولية في القاهرة واعدها بعض أعضاء الجمعية وهم الحسن محمد حاج، محمد على اداب، طاهر حامد هبناي، اوشيك موسى،محمد ادروب محمد، المرحوم طاهر عيسى ارك، كاتب المقال مصري اسمه محمد عباس و تأريخه في 2001
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Khalid Eltayeb)
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Dear Khalid el Tayib,
Great information I hope other people are able to add to it. The group you mentioned in Egypt is an active group, they are also occupied with others in writing the Beja language, which is called the Bedauit. Why writing it? because language brings with it the human experiences and history, because it is a basic human right, Beja people know the causes behind their marginalisation, language is one cause, they do not speak Arabic, as you earlier mentioned Tigre and Tigrenya, these languages they share with Eritreans have created stronger relationship between Beja and Eritrean, while weakened it with the rest of Sudanese, Beja should be able to communicate in their own language without being marginalised by the centre. I will try to follow your piece of information with another one from my own collection, the problem here is the Arabic/English language, yours will be more useful. I hope that Beja people in this board come and participate in this post, their contribution is very important,
take care
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Muna Khugali)
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Dear Muna, I enjoyed reading what you wrote because you had been there before and for sure you
have more to say and with a great interest I read khalid article, we all found a great information, Now let me go back what you said about the reasons why the rural women in general or Beja Women for example do not want the change, of course I strongly agree with you for the reasons that you pointed also we have to point that the rural woman is even marginalised and exploited by a man who is himself marginalised and exploited in short, there is is gender variations can also be seen within the rural space, also the change and revolution... I feel that the voices and protests of Dalit women are almost invisible in the rural, In the rural and agricultural sector it is impossible, or very hard, for women to gain access to school or continue her school, even if she love the school. This issue is generally argued by many social thinkers that the sudanese rural women are protected by man, caste, kinship and family networks we continue
Anwar Ahmed
(عدل بواسطة Anwar Ahmed on 12-22-2004, 04:58 AM)
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Khalid Eltayeb)
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Dear all, you are wonderful and positive people, thanks Adil and Khalid for the links and photo, very useful information, we are waiting for your contribution Nasir
Muna
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Re: Beja Women (Re: هاشم نوريت)
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Dear brother Noreit,
There are many causes for me and for my partners in this post to write about Beja, all is based on our fight against marginalisation and discrimination. I have other personal reasons although related to the previously mentioned one, but still remains personal. Which is my personal relation with Beja people, I have developed a profound love for Beja especially in Garora, among them, I lived some of the most beautiful time in my life, they have added a lot to me and to my concept of rights, especially women's rights. As a human being and as a woman I became obsessed with Beja, their customs, style of life, way of thinking and all other details, I became a member of many families and they gave me a lot of love. I was shocked when I first saw the way they live, eat and struggle especially in Hamsh Koreb but I was also amazed by the women’s ability to produce and the way they earn their family living without showing their real main role in doing that. I was devastated by their meaningless sufferings and the hard life they live, unable to lead a stable life because of the war, their animals die and increase the suffering of their children, no milk will be available, no jobs for their husbands and the fight forces most of men to leave their families alone, the absence of health service, education, transport, the drought that affected agriculture and animals lack of water, spread of TB and other diseases,
I can talk the whole night about the Beja suffering. When northerners visit Beja for the first time, the first question will be, are they Sudanese like me? Do we really live in the same country? How come they have such a difficult life and still struggle? Some of my southern female colleagues visited some villages in Beja land and they were shocked, at least south Sudan had rains that brought some fruits or vegetables, but also one cause behind their shock, that they thought they were the only marginalised in Sudan! Now, we have a strategy and tactic, whenever we are in a conference, we talk about the Beja
Once in Garora, early morning my friend was telling her brother to get up it was time to go to school, his answer was full of despair, he said why should I go? My life will never change since I will continue to live like our donkey! But children in Garora were more luckier than those in Hamsh Koreb, and Hamsh Koreb is the name given to a number of villages, about 32 villages, Please correct me Noreit if I am wrong, one of them is called Hamsh Koreb and another called Hamsh Koreb sageer (little hamsh koreb) In Basbar another village, existed the only school in the area, of course for boys, girls are not allowed to receive education, students in this school use the rooms as classes during the day and as bed rooms during the night, they only take tea with milk in the morning and lentil for lunch, all paid by donation from some families beside some help from Beja Congress.
I saw children collecting dome, mothers use it to make porridge with water for children meal, if they are lucky they might get a little bit of milk for this porridge.
We continue
Muna.
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Muna Khugali)
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| Quote: I am sorry I wanted to continue discussing this issue somewhere else, but I did not like the title of the issue and I hated very much the reaction to the title, |
الاخت منى خوجلي
اتفق معك ولكن للاسف الشديد في كثير من الاحيان عناوين الاثاره تصبح الوسيله الوحيده لجذب القراء للبوست مثل التوابل بالنسبة للطعام
اوضاع المرأة البجاوية تصبح خير نموذج لقضية التهميش ولكنهالايمكن ان تناقش بمعزل عن الاوضاع السائده لان المرأة هنا نتيجه وليست سببا
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Re: Beja Women (Re: Napta king)
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Thank you Napta King, I totally agree with you, the marginalisation which is one of the main causes has included all, men and women and affected women more than men because of many other factors,
Thanks and hope to see you again, and it is disturbing to see the atmosphere in this board, espcially these days, let us stick to what we know, what we blieve in, at least we can find some peace
Muna
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Muna Khugali
Khalid Eltayeb
خضر عطا المنان
عبدالناصر معتصم
Adil Osman
هاشم نوريت
Napta king
فيس بوك
تويتر
انستقرام
يوتيوب
بنتيريست