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 Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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Dear Gor
The Dialectical Materialism argues the following:
Just as colossal subterranean pressures that accumulate and periodically break through the earth's crust in the form of earthquakes, so gradual changes in the consciousness of workers lead to an explosion in the class struggle. A strike in a factory is not caused by outside "agitators", but is produced by an accumulation of changes within the factory that finally pushes the workforce to strike. The "cause" of the strike maybe something quite small and incidental, a tea-break for instance, but it has become "the last straw that breaks the camel's back", to use a popular (dialectical) expression. It has become the catalyst whereby quantity changes into quality.
So let us go through it step by step
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Asim Fageary)
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Lenin also laid great stress on the importance of contradiction as the motive force of development. "It is common knowledge that, in any given society, the strivings of some of its members conflict with the strivings of others, that social life is full of contradictions, and that history reveals a struggle between nations and societies, as well as within nations and societies, and, besides, an alternation of periods of revolution and reaction, peace and war, stagnation and rapid progress or decline." (Lenin, Three Sources and Component Parts of Marxism).
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Asim Fageary)
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Dear Asim Fageary
Thank you very much for your conterbution to this question
please note that :this epistemological post focuses on these words ( Alienation and powerlessness).I think we still far away to capture the epistemological and Marxisim meaning of Alienation what do think?
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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| Quote: Lenin also laid great stress on the importance of contradiction as the motive force of development. "It is common knowledge that, in any given society, the strivings of some of its members conflict with the strivings of others, that social life is full of contradictions, and that history reveals a struggle between nations and societies, as well as within nations and societies, and, besides, an alternation of periods of revolution and reaction, peace and war, stagnation and rapid progress or decline." (Lenin, Three Sources and Component Parts of Marxism |
I will come back to Lenin argument and conflict assumtion
after the discovering of the real meaning of Marx Alienation
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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Dear my friend Gor
greeting
with my regards
I can only understand every other word your spelling needs help.ha ha ha
| Quote: If the alienation couses conflict |
| Quote: I will come back to Lenin argument and conflict assumtion |
Alienation and powerless) it's really great and valuable issue I will come back to it)
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Asim Fageary)
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| Quote: What Marx means by alienation is that: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production |
Okay... like Sufism in the continental philosophy
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Asim Fageary)
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Quote: If the alienation couses conflict
that means the word alienation has
profound psychological meaning!! |
| Quote: What Marx means by alienation is that: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production |
]Dear my friends Gor and
Asim Fageary
Greeting
As I said previously in my early introduction, alienation is a very important subject. My concern is to discuss it farther from different source and ways.
Below are headlines of the concept "alienation" in different philosophical views, I prefer to put them like that, and I will come back to detail them specifically the one in Marx’s view.
Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx
(Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source) Jean Paul Sartre
(I have just suggested that the concept of alienation seems to become questionable when the individuals identify themselves with the existence which imposed upon them and have in it their own development and satisfaction) Herbert Marcuse
(But that feeling of dependence by which man is more or less conscious that he does not and cannot exist without other being different from him and that his existence does not originate in himself) Lwing Feuerbach
(Religion is an outshoot of the father complex and represents man helplessness in the world.)Sigmund Freud
Also, the root of “alienation” in Hegel’s philosophy
Thank you
Awad hassan
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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Dear Hassan
| Quote: Gor, please not my name. |
I am sorry if I have been of some offensiveness
your contribution to this epistemological post is vital
.I will come back for more exploration…
Peace,
Gor
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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| Quote: Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx |
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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| Quote: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production |
| Quote: Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx |
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Elmosley)
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| Quote: I hope that either you change it into Arabic or taking it to the other part and stay well. |
I strongly support your request Dr. Mosley
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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| Quote: Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source) Jean Paul Sartre |
Dear Gor and the guests
Greetings
To follow our subject “alienation” concept, let me fist start with Jean Paul Sartre and his claim, before we come to other philosophers, especially Marx our important one in this discussion.
Sartre is well known as an atheist philosopher and also a leading representative figure of existentialism philosophy. He believes in freedom and regards it our fate and destiny as human beings. Sartre takes alienation concept in different way from Marx . He sees the alienated person is individual who immersed completely in means and loses his essence and aims, and submits himself to life of society, without any kind of thinking, or critical attitude. Sartre sees even public education which encourages conformity, and mass media which through distraction take from the individual his capacity for real experience.
(Alienation is far more pervasive for Sartre than it is for Marx, since it arises from the fact of social life, and not from one of its aspects, namely the mode of production. The individual can avoid this state of alienation only by assuming the determinations given him, by the look of other, the meaning inherent in his environment, and the techniques which he employs, as means to his own individual ends. Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source. Alienation is the result of attitudes in bad faith, and its cure is the assumption of freedom. Bad faith is essentially a flight from responsible action, which is the only way to give a subjective meaning to the objective determinations which threaten us with alienation.
Sartre’s alternative to alienation is more somber than that of Marx, as it brings with it anguish which result from a recognition of freedom.)
Jean Paul Sartre- The Existentialist Ethic-by Norman N. Greene
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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Quote: Dear Gor and the guests
Greetings
To follow our subject “alienation” concept, let me fist start with Jean Paul Sartre and his claim, before we come to other philosophers, especially Marx our important one in this discussion.
Sartre is well known as an atheist philosopher and also a leading representative figure of existentialism philosophy. He believes in freedom and regards it our fate and destiny as human beings. Sartre takes alienation concept in different way from Marx . He sees the alienated person is individual who immersed completely in means and loses his essence and aims, and submits himself to life of society, without any kind of thinking, or critical attitude. Sartre sees even public education which encourages conformity, and mass media which through distraction take from the individual his capacity for real experience.
(Alienation is far more pervasive for Sartre than it is for Marx, since it arises from the fact of social life, and not from one of its aspects, namely the mode of production. The individual can avoid this state of alienation only by assuming the determinations given him, by the look of other, the meaning inherent in his environment, and the techniques which he employs, as means to his own individual ends. Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source. Alienation is the result of attitudes in bad faith, and its cure is the assumption of freedom. Bad faith is essentially a flight from responsible action, which is the only way to give a subjective meaning to the objective determinations which threaten us with alienation.
Sartre’s alternative to alienation is more somber than that of Marx, as it brings with it anguish which result from a recognition of freedom.)
Jean Paul Sartre- The Existentialist Ethic-by Norman N. Greene |
Dear Mr.Hassan
Thank you
This basically far sighted explanation
I will be back soon
Peace,
Gor
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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| Quote: (I have just suggested that the concept of alienation seems to become questionable when the individuals identify themselves with the existence which imposed upon them and have in it their own development and satisfaction) Herbert Marcuse |
Herbert Marcuse was a philosopher and one of Frankfurt school thinkers. The school connected with a place called the Institute of Social Research. Herbert Marcuse and his colleagues believed and shared Marx’s theory of historical materialism. Each one of those thinkers took this theory and fixed it to meet the need of modern society. They came to result known as “critical theory “
In his book “One Dimensional Man” published in 1964, Marcuse deeply analyzes and diagnoses the alienation concept in industrial society. He describes the mechanism through which consumer capitalism integrates individuals into its world of thought, behavior which threat human freedom and individuality in a complete administered society. Marcuse develops his ideas in a critical philosophical form to criticize existing form of behavior, thought and social organization.”One Dimensional Man” describes alienated individual in industrial society and how this individual loses his freedom and personality, and becomes dominated and alienated by the system of technology in industrial society.
We are again confronted with one of the most vexing aspects of advanced industrial civilization: the rational character of its irrationality. Its productivity and efficiency, its capacity to increase and spread comforts, to turn waste into need, and destruction into construction, the extent to which this civilization transforms the object world into an extension of man’s mind and body makes the very notion of alienation questionable. The people recognize themselves in their commodities; they find their soul in their automobile, hi-fi set, split-level home, kitchen equipment. The very mechanism which ties the individual to his society has changed, and social control is anchored in the new needs which it has produced.
I have just suggested that the concept of alienation seems to become questionable when the individuals identify themselves with the existence which is imposed upon them and have in it their own development and satisfaction. This identification is not illusion but reality. However, the reality constitutes a more progressive stage of alienation. The latter has become entirely objective; the subject which is alienated is swallowed up by its alienated existence. There is only one dimension, and it is ever where and in all forms. The achievements of progress defy ideological indictment as well as justification; before their tribunal, the “false consciousness” of their rationality becomes the true consciousness.
One-Dimensional Man – Herbert Marcuse—by Douglas Kellner
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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Quote: Marx Argues :Inevitable and continual conflict
caused by inequality resulting
from social class differences |
Gor
Quote: Let us focus in these two concepts
of alienations and powerless |
Gor
| Quote: What Marx means by alienation is that: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production |
Asim Fageary
Quote: If the alienation couses conflict
that means the word alienation has
profound psychological meaning!! |
Gor
| Quote: Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx |
awad
Marx claimed that his doctrine differed from those of earlier socialist thinkers in that his approach was scientific whereas theirs had been utopian. Instead of formulating principles for the organization of an ideal society, he devoted himself to realistic analysis of European as it then existed. He was, however, just as indignant about the abuses which he discerned in the European social structure as the most idealistic of the utopian socialists. Because of his scientific orientation, and in accordance with his attack on moral systems as ideological, he was obliged to find a basis criticism of what he felt to be social abuses. He found it in the concept of alienation, which had been originated by Hegel, and which can be defined broadly as a state of affairs in which the relation of the individual to the world, society, and to himself is inconsistent with his welfare as a personality and a human being. Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia. The individual cannot recognize his own purposes in the results of his effort, and there is a gulf between his in intentions and the consequences of the acts which are motivated by these intentions. Another way of describing an alienated person is to say that the conduct required of a person by his social situation does not meet his emotional needs; human nature is out of accord with social system.
The particular form which Marx gave to this concept was a description of man as alienated by the economic system: In the attempt to provide for his material needs man organizes himself for economic activity and sets in motion a pattern of institutional development which results in dehumanizing of work for the laboring class, and a class system in which the worker is robbed of the fruits of his own labor—the theory of surplus value. The worker himself becomes a commodity like any other object whose value is determined by the market conditions. The capitalist system thus appears as inhuman, and the task to be achieved is the overthrow of the existing social order and the establishment of a classless society in which man’s self –alienation will come to an end. Marx apparently envisaged the classless society as a society in which human relations would take spontaneous forms. The class system, the state, law, the family, and ideology – in short, society as we know it—would with away and be replaced by natural and harmonious social relationships.
Jean Paul Sartre --- The Existentialism Ethic – by Norman N. Greene –p.150
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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Hello Mr.Hassan
Quote: My dear friend Dr. Gor
This is not Bagara's(Sudanese Cowboys) ethics and behaviors
to invite some one to your home and wandering away from him
in anther place. your post is your home. please come back for
. the sake of Marx's alienation
hahahahahahahahahah iam joking |
Thank you for joking .What a joker
In my invitation
I said soft discussion
If you get back to Brecht
you may find culture and behavior
are contributed to our alienation
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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Quote: Hi Hassan
our world
is plugging
in diffrent and
various problem
New ideas have
immerged out like
the identity ,globalization
the end of ideology .
however the word of alienation would stand
as areal challenging our battling for explanation
ideology also can cause alienation
transcendentalism cause alienation.
Sufism and religion create alienation!!
intuition of an artist makes him alienated.
when I said let us focus on alienation
I did not mean only Marx’s alienation , i examined the concept within
conflict studies . The word is very slippery and has so many faces
let us adopt and tolerate thinking and meditation ...
My friend
why I feel alienated ????? |
This is absolutely valuable interference
with a serious statements and points and it is really
visualizes and reflects the dilemma of our present civilization
I will come to it in details after I add other philosophical opinions
about alienation.
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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Hello Mr.Hassan
[QUOT
My dear friend Dr. Gor
This is not Bagara's(Sudanese Cowboys) ethics and behaviors
to invite some one to your home and wandering away from him
in anther place. your post is your home. please come back for
. the sake of Marx's alienation
hahahahahahahahahah iam joking
|
Thank you for joking .What a joker
In my invitation
I said soft discussion
If you get back to Brecht
you may find culture and behavior
are contributed to our alienation
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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Religion and ALienation
| Quote: Sufism and religion create alienation |
Gor
| Quote: But that feeling of dependence by which man is more or less conscious that he does not and cannot exist without other being different from him and that his existence does not originate in himself) Lwing Feuerbach |
Awad
Ludwing Feurbach 1804-1872,German materialist philosopher
The feeling of dependence in man is the source of religion; but the object of this dependence, viz., that upon which man is and feels himself dependent is originally nothing but nature. Nature is the first original object of religion as is sufficiently proved by the history of all religions and nations.
The assertion that religion is innate with and natural to a man, is false if religion is identified with theism; but it is perfectly true, if religion is considered to be nothing but that feeling of dependence by which man is more or less conscious that he does not and cannot exist without another being, different from himself and that his existence does not originate in himself.
(Religion thus understood, is as essential to man as light to the eyes, as air to the lungs as food to the stomach. Religion is the manifestation of man’s conception of himself, but above all man is a being who does not exist without light, without air, without water, without earth, without food- he is, in short, a being dependent on nature. This dependence in the animal, and in man as far as he moves within sphere of the brute, is only an unconsciousness and un reflected one; but by its elevation into consciousness and imagination, by its consideration and profession, it becomes religion)
(The essence of religion. Ludwig Feuerbach- by Alexander Loos)
(God is nothing more to man than “man”. He claims later “ man fist of all sees his nature as if out of himself, but before he finds it in himself”. Since god of the consciousness of human beings, he is part of human beings.)
Essence of Christianity – pg 378-Ludwig Feuerbach
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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Religion and Alienation| Quote: Religion is an outshoot of the father complex and represents man helplessness in the world.)Sigmund Freud |
Awad
Sigmund Freud,1856-1939,Austrian Psychologist
Religion is an outshoot of the father-complex and represents man’s helplessness in the world, having to face the ultimate fate of death, the struggle of civilization, and the forces of nature. He view God as child-like “longing for [a]father “((p9-18)in his words “ the Gods retain the threefold task ; they must exorcize the terrors of nature, they reconcile men to cruelty of fate, particularly as it is shown in death, and they compensate them for the sufferings and privations which a civilized life is command has imposed on them)
(Psychoanalysis of Religion)Sigmund Freud.
“His ideas about religion were also developed in “The Future of illusion” 1927. When Freud spoke of religion as illusion, he maintained that it is a fantasy structure form which a man must be set free if he is to grow to maturity; and in his treatment of unconsciousness he moved toward atheism .I n this sense Freud approached the Marxist theory of alienation “
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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استاذنا قور
كل سنه وانت طيب
يعني حبة الانجليزي الاتعلمناها في البلد دي عيزين تطفشوها مننا ولا شنو؟
العربي ولا الترجمه خيار للسلام( هههه)
ترجمو للناس ديل عشان في ناس بدخلو النت ده من موبايلات وناس ساكنين في حته مافيها دكشنيري ولا كتاب تعلم الانجليزيه في اسبوع...
وعيد سعيد
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: عليش)
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Quote: استاذنا قور
كل سنه وانت طيب
يعني حبة الانجليزي الاتعلمناها في البلد دي عيزين تطفشوها مننا ولا شنو؟
العربي ولا الترجمه خيار للسلام( هههه)
ترجمو للناس ديل عشان في ناس بدخلو النت ده من موبايلات وناس ساكنين في حته مافيها دكشنيري ولا كتاب تعلم الانجليزيه في اسبوع...
وعيد سعيد |
Hahahhahahahah
الضحك زاتو بالانجليزى
حلوة دى
رمية: يا عوض
رايكم شنو نقلب البوست دا الى انجليزى
بعنوان الصراع فى الماركسية
وكلمة تغريب Alienation
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: awad hassan)
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عزيزى حسان
عزيزى فقيرى
المتداخلين بالبوست
تحية واحترام
هناك طلب متزايد
لتحويل لغة البوست
الى العربية ..
هذا بالطبع أمر مفيد وعاقل .
لكن هناك نقطة جديرة بالتوضيح
فالبوست عنوانه سيكون باللغة العربية
( الصراع فى الماركسية) .
يتم التركيز على المفردة (تغريب )Aleinnation
بالطبع كان مدخلى من منظور دراسات السلم
والنزاعات Peace & Conflict Studies...
وتعرضت الى مفهوم الصراع الطبقى
فالماركسية ترى ان استغلال الطبقة
البرجوازية لطبقة البروليتاريا يقود
الى ( التغريبوالعجز) لذى يقود الى الصراع
فالنظرية الماركسية فى النزاعات معرفيا
تنظر الى التغريب والعجز أشباب Human Aggression
لكل ذلك كنت قد دعوت الى التركيز على مفردة ( التغريب) ..
هناك مداخلات غنية ، عميقة لدى كل من عوض حسان والاستاذ فقيرى ..
حيث قاما بتعريفات شاملة وعميقة ، وفحص لهذه لمفردة فى الفلسفات المختلفة
يدل على تمكنهما من هذا المجال الهام ...
بينما ذهبت أنا الى الزعم بأن التغريب الذى يعنيه ماركس أبعد من المعنى المادى . وضربت
مثل بالشاعر الالمانى بريخت ...التغريب حالة نفسية و حالة انعصاب وجدانى قد لا تقود ال العنف أو النزاع قد تقود ال الانطواء. بلاشك المعنى ينطوى على مفهوم ترانسدانتالى...
وأرى فى التغريب حالة تاملية.
الحدس الابداعى به تغريب
التصوف به تغريب
الوجودية حالة من الاغتراب الوجدانى ..
اذا لقد كان الفيلسوف ماركس عميقا فى دعوة التغريب ..
الآن عالمنا يذهب نحو تغريب وتشيؤ منقطع النظير
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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وهذه ترجمة لصدر البوست :
هناك صراع حتمي بسبب عدم العدالة الناجم عن الاختلافات فى البقات الاجتماعية.فى المجتمعات الراسمالية يتسبب الصراع والاستقطاب بين الطبقة العاملة والبرجوازية مما يؤدى الى استغلال الطبقة العاملة من قبل البرجوازية،مما يقود الى الاغتراب Alienation والعجز Powerlessness فيصح الصراع الطبقي أمرا حتميا.وترتكز الماركسية على المادية التاريخية فلسفيا فى تفسير المجتمع والتاريخ.نمط الانتاج والبنية التحتية تحدد خصائص وصفات المجتمع الاجتماعية والسياسية والروحية.الاقتصاد هو أساس البناء التحتي
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Re: Conflict In Marxism (Re: Abuelgassim Gor)
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| Quote: Sufism and religion create alienation |
Gor
| Quote: اذا لقد كان الفيلسوف ماركس عميقا فى دعوة التغريب |
Gor
Religion functions, as Marx contended, as the opium of the people. By turning their attention away from the actual facts of their experience to mythical duties and rewards, it prevents them from realizing their power to deal directly and personally with problems which face them.
Jean Paul Sartre. The Existentialist Ethic. By Norman N. Greene. P.79
Dr. Gor
,,you have two statements above
my question, do you agree
with Marx's contend?????
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Abuelgassim Gor
Asim Fageary
awad hassan
محمد المعتز جعفر
الصادق يحيى عبدالله
Elmosley
Ahmed Elmardi
عليش
فيس بوك
تويتر
انستقرام
يوتيوب
بنتيريست