حوار ساخن من البي بي سي مع نائب الرئيس السوداني اليوم .. دارفور

الوصلة التالية تقودكم إلى برنامج هاردتوك الشهير وفيه تحاور الإذاعية السودانية المتمكنة زينب بدوي نائب الرئيس السوداني حول الأوضاع في دارفور..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3547082.stm

In the above link the whole interview can be read.

In the following link you can watch the video tape of the interview.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/04/hardtalk/taha09aug.ram

However, if you can access the BBC world channel the interview shall be replayed at these times GMT
18:30
23:30
Today , Monday 9.08.04

نرجوكم أن ترفعوا هذا البوست باستمرار حتى يتمكن أكبر عدد من الداخلين من رؤيته في الواجهة دوما..

The United Nations has given the Sudanese government 30 days to start disarming the janjaweed militias who are accused of indiscriminate murders, rapes and other attacks against black African villagers in the western Darfur region.

More than a million people have fled their homes in the region and aid agencies are warning of a humanitarian disaster.

The government has been accused of backing the janjaweed.

Ali Osman Taha is the country's First Vice President. Here are some key points from his HARDtalk interview.


Meeting the UN deadline

ZEINAB BADAWI - You've been asked by the United Nations to disarm the janjaweed. Are you going to do that?

ALI OSMAN TAHA - We are really committed to disarm whoever is acting outside the law, be it the janjaweed, which is a local term which means the tribal outlaws and irrespective of their background, the government is determined and decided to disarm whoever acts or behaves outside of the law and make the life of people there in trouble.

ZB - Are you giving us a commitment now that you are prepared to completely disarm the janjaweed?

AOT - We are really committed to disarm all militias that are acting outside the law. Janjaweed, tarabora (PHON) or whatever name they have.

ZB - The janjaweed though in particular, who it is claimed, you have supported - are you going to be disarming them completely? And if so, within what time frame?

AOT - Janjaweed and other militias will be disarmed. This is a plan that the government has already embarked into and it will take the time that is necessary for us to deploy and put up logistics and manpower that's needed.

ZB- What is the time necessary? You've been given until the end of this month to demonstrate your total commitment to doing so. How much time do you think you'll need exactly?

AOT - We have already deployed 6000 police troops and we are planning to put the number up to 12000 men..

ZB - When?

AOT - Maybe over the coming weeks but definitely not within the time limit of this August

ZB - So you can't meet the deadline which the United Nations has given you to demonstrate your ability to disarm the militias, the janjaweed completely. You can't meet that time frame. Is that what you are saying?

AOT - We are doing our best to meet that deadline but definitely, due to logistical problems and limitations we have at the moment, I don't think the time frame is practical.

Disarming the janjaweed

ZB - Are you not going to try to disarm the janjaweed until the rebels start disarming?

AOT - I think, to have a real, stable situation in Darfur, it has to be done on both sides.

ZB - Is that what you're saying then, that your government will not disarm the militias until the rebels start doing the same?

AOT - The government has already started disarming the janjaweed and other militias but we say clearly that we cannot begin to have comprehensive stability without having disarmed both sides.

His reaction to various human rights reports

AOT - These reports, attributed to the UN, African Union...they are not correct.

ZB - Well, I mean, the African Union - we spoke to them personally before this. They said your government could be doing much more, the reports are in the public domain, there are eye witness accounts..

AOT - But they are not saying these reports are true. They may say the government of Sudan can do more but this doesn't mean..

ZB - No, they are talking about atrocities perpetrated by the janjaweed against innocent civilians, elderly men, women, children, innocent people.

I have to give you some examples. Have you heard about Human Rights Watch saying 65 mosques burnt in Dar Masalit with scores killed in mosques, one elderly Imam near Habila killed as he rushed home from the mosque to save his 3 year old orphaned grandson. Both of them were killed by the janjaweed.

AOT - These reports are reports of war and everywhere there is war, there could be atrocities. I'm not defending that these atrocities ..

ZB - You're changing your story now. First you were saying they weren't true and now you are saying they might have happened..

AOT - No. No. I'm saying that the degree..the numbers..the figures are not correct. But I'm saying that in the case of war, there would be atrocities, there would be violations of human rights. There's no doubt about it, but what we are supposed to do is to have a serious and genuine commitment to support the government of Sudan to perform.

ZB - So you admit these atrocities have gone on, the kind of atrocities I just described to you..

AOT - I don't admit that...in particular, there are no evidence. We stand to call on international communities to set up commissions to verify and investigate these allegations.

Arresting janjaweed leaders

ZB - Let me ask you about one specific alleged janjaweed leader, who the United States has identified as being somebody they would be interested in seeing being apprehended, Musa Hilal, often in Khartoum.

A Washington Post article dated 12th July this year said he was jailed in 1997 for killing 17 Darfurians. Why haven't you arrested him? I was in the same house as him here a few weeks ago in Khartoum..

AOT - No, no..He was arrested a few years back when there was enough evidence to do so by this very same government and if anything comes up again to warrant him being arrested or even sentenced, we will not hesitate to do so.

ZB - Why haven't you arrested him? You've had many chances.

AOT - Because we don't have anything. Nobody has come up with specific allegations against this very Musa Hilal.

The fact that he has been apprehended and arrested years back under this government is a proof that whenever there is proof the government will not hesitate to action.

ZB - But there have been very strong allegations, as you know. He has been accused of coordinating..

AOT - Allegations , you know better. We are talking about human rights. We can not just apprehend anybody or sentence him just on allegations. We have set commissions of investigations.

We have set offices of public prosecution and they are investigating the cases there. We have set an independent judicial commission to investigate the situation in Darfur and if any evidence comes up that warrants apprehending Musa Hilal or anybody, then the government will take action.

Stability in the South

ZB - Colin Powell says the crisis in Darfur could cost you peace with the South which you have worked many decades for. That's a possibility isn't it?

AOT - It may cause the peace in southern Sudan to collapse. Especially if those who are not happy with what has been achieved in Naivasha will take an upper hand in directing the events specially on the international media focus on Darfur.

But for us who have made this achievement in Naivasha and for the Sudan government in that case, we are interested in managing the crisis in Darfur as quickly, as promptly as we can.

International troops and observers AOT - I don't think the presence of international troops in Darfur would help providing security. What we do feel that if international security came to Darfur, that would aggravate the situation rather than pacifying it.

ZB - African Union peacekeepers acceptable?

AOT - African Union observers are acceptable at the moment.

ZB - The African Union has spoken of sending maybe two to three thousand people, soldiers to Darfur. Would that be acceptable?

AOT - That would only be acceptable if we think really this helps in controlling the case but we still believe Sudan's government as far as manpower is concerned can do the job.



HARDtalk can be seen on BBC World at 03:30 GMT, 08:30 GMT, 11:30 GMT, 15:30 GMT, 18:30 GMT and 23:30 GMT

It can also be seen on BBC News 24 at 04:30 and 23:30

أجمل ما في الحوار أن زينب البدوي

تلكم المذيعة السودانية المفخرة

هي التي تقود دفته باقتدار..

صراحة ..

ركزت على اسئلتها .. واسلوب طرحها

أكثر من مضمون الحوار نفسه ..

هكذا يكون العمل ..

الأخ ياسر

تحياتى .. وشكراً لنقلك لهذا الحوار الفُرجة .. طبعاً الأستاذة زينب البدوى هى كريمة الإذاعى المقتدر محمد خير البدوى وهى رضيعة هذا الفن بالتربية .. فى الحوار إياه زينب بهدلت الراجل بهدلة لذا أستحق بجدارة أن يكون العنوان حوار مع " الغائب الأول " .. ولأن الشئ بالشئ يذكر فلقد عّنت لى بعض النقاط السريعة أوردها فى عجالة .. أولاً ذكرنى حوار زينب البدوى بحوارات أستاذتى الصحفية التى تتلمذت عليها بشكل غير مباشر وافدت منها كثيراً .. الأستاذة رغدة درغام " جريدة الحياة " وياريت ياأخ ياسر تتاح لك ولغيرك قراءة حوارها للبشير فى أوائل سنى الإنقاذ ومن ثم لتحكموا بأنفسكم .. لقد تعرضت أنا لموقف مخزى وسخيف جداً وغير ديمقراطى حينما طلبت حواراً مع الصادق المهدى رئيس الوزراء فى فترة ما بعد الإنتفاضة لصالح مطبوعة عربية تصدر فى قبرص ، وقد كان أن طُلب منى التقدم بأسئلتى مكتوبة على أن التزم فى حين أعتمادها بأن لا أضيف أى شئ لماهو مكتوب ، وقد قبلت ذلك التحدى وقمت بتسليم أسئلتى مكتوبة فعلاً وتلقيت وعداً بالرد علىّ والبت فى أمر المقابلة ، ثم بدآ مشوار التلكؤ والتسويف والمماطلة بعد أن اكتشف سيادة رئيس الوزراء " الغير ديمقراطى " بأن هناك بعض الأسئلة غير المحبذة والتى لايملك لها أى إجابة .. وبعد إلحاحى وقتالى ونضالى من أجل معرفة الرد بصورة واضحة اعترف لى إعلام مجلس الوزراء بأن المقابلة مرفوضة ومن السيد رئيس الوزراء شخصياً والذى لم يكتف بذلك بل أردفه بحرمانى من أى تغطية بمجلس الوزراء .. تخيل !!
حاشية : هذه الواقعة موثقة فى صحيفتين يوميتين .. جريدة الأيام .. وجريدة الخرطوم ..

شكراً ياسر وسأعود إن سمح لى الوقت .

الموضوع ده مفروض يكون فوق.. وماشه أحضر الحوار.. شوقتوني أشوف النائب الأول مزرور.. والله أ،ا زينب دي مما أشوفها بقرّب أبكي من الفرحة....


ده الكلام.. بي بي سي مرّه واحده



بنت الحسين

فعلا مفخـرة لكل ســودانى.. عفيت منك يا بت البـدوى.

أما على عثمـان، فقـد كانت الجـرائـم تلاحقـه فى كلمـة يقولهـا فيتعثـر لسـانـه.

من ضمن ما قـالـه:

هـذه حــرب، قـد تكون فيهـا مذابـح، قـد تكون فيهـا إنتهـاكات!! (تصـوروا.. حرب ومـذابـح وإنتهاكات ضـد شعبـه، وليس غـزوا خارجيـا.. ضـد أهلـه وعشـيرتـه)

ثم أنظـروا إلى هـذا التناقض:
1- الحكـومـة دعمت القبائل العـربيـة من أجل تثبيت حكم القانـون فى دارفـور!!!
2- الحكـومـة لم تسـلـح الجنجـويـد، وإنما الجنجـويـد هـاجمـوا قواعـد الجيش وقتلـوا الجيش وأخـذوا الســلاح.. (من لا يصـدق هـذا فليستمـع إليـه مرة أخـرى)

3- نحن لا علـم لنا بوجـود قادة الجنجـويـد فى الخـرطـوم، الذين ترينهـم هنـا هـم زعمـاء قبائل فى دارفـور!!!!!!!!

عين كـذب التـرابى، أستـاذه، ولفـه ودورانـه.

لكن زينب البـدوى توزن تلفـزيـون الســودان كلـو، رجالـه ونسـائـه.

العزيز الدكتور ياسر الشريف



عودتنا دائما بخبطات القوية
فلك التحية والتقدير

لقد شاهدت البرنامج الذي سقط فيه المجرم شر سقوط واثبت بانه زعيم الاول بدون منازع للجنجويد

والتحية للاعلامية القديرة زينب البدوي والتي بحق وحقيقة كانت كما لو انها محامية بارعة في قاعة المحكمة وهي تصول وتجول بل نجحت في جر المجرم الي الشرك الاعتراف

فقد انكر النائب الهمام! حدوث فظائع ثم عاد واعترف وبشكل مشفق قائلا انها الحرب !!

نقول له اي حرب تلك التي يحرق ويغتصب ويدمر الابرياء وبالجملة يا زعيم الجنجويد عثمان طه !!

كما سقط النائب الاول في معرض اعترافاته بتجيش رجال القبائل ولما سالتها عن انه اعطي الاسلحة للجنجويد انكر كعادته ولكنه لو سكت كان ارحم له.

اما السقطة الكبيرة في رايي هي سؤالهاعن الجنجويدي موسي هلال فالنائب اعترف بانه كان مسجونا قبل سنوات بعد ان ثبت انه قتل 17فرداً من دارفور
واذا كان ذلك كذلك باعتراف النائب

السؤال الذي يتبع ذلك كيف وباي حق اطلق هذا النائب العجيب صراح قاتل 17 شخص من سجن والمعلوم ان القتل العمد لشخص واحد فقط عقوبته السجن المؤبد فكيف بالذي قتل تاشرات يكون طليقابين عشية وضحاها
كما ان اعترافه بان هلال كان مسجونا بجريمة قتل يدعم دعاوي التي تؤكد زعامة هلال لمليشيات جنجويد

لي عودة

يا جماعه في عدل في الدنيا دي....مش المفروض زينب تكون هي نائبة الرئيس و الزول الحيوان ده يكون فى أحد زنازين شالا.....و مؤبد كمان....

Quote: íÇ ÌãÇÚå Ýí ÚÏá Ýí ÇáÏäíÇ Ïí....ãÔ ÇáãÝÑæÖ ÒíäÈ Êßæä åí äÇÆÈÉ ÇáÑÆíÓ æ ÇáÒæá ÇáÍíæÇä Ïå íßæä Ýì ÃÍÏ ÒäÇÒíä ÔÇáÇ.....æ ãÄÈÏ ßãÇä....

ليس من العد الذى تنادى بة ان تدعو انسانا كرمة اللة تعالى بالحيوان. والا فانت لاتقل عنة فى ذلك شئا

كانو ا المتداخلين على هذا البوست غير سودانيين

السودان في خطر وانتو ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

سبحان الله


اللهم احفظ السودان

وابعد عنه اولاد الحرام ( الامريكان واليهود و؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟)

عبدالله بابكر

من أنت !؟ وماذا تريد أن تقول ببساطة !!؟

عبـد الله بـابكــر،

أولاد (الحــرام) هـم الذين يحكمـون الســودان اليـوم.. ودعـومك مستجـابـة إن شــاء الله

فوق ..

التأدب عند دعاء الله سبحانه وتعالى !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote: اللهم احفظ السودان وابعد عنه اولاد الحرام ( الامريكان واليهود و؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟)

"السودان في خطر وانتو ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟"

الأخ عبـدالله بابكــر،

طبعـا الســودان فى خطــر.. البلاد تمـر بنعطـف خطيــر.. المـرحلـة الراهنـة تستـوجب!! الخ العبارات الإنشـائيـة التى يخـدر بهـا السيـاسيــون الســودانيـون المواطنين منـذ (إسـتغلال) الســودان.

الناس اللى دقـوا صـدرهـم يوم 30 يونيـو، وقالـوا هـم وحـدهـم عنـدهـم الحل، وشــردوا وعذبـوا وقتلـوا بقيـة الشعب الذين على غيـر دينهـم، خليهـم يحلـوهـا
الأن، وما تشتغل بينـا! هـم حتى الأن ممسكين بالحـديـد والنـار ودايرين الناس تشـأرك فى مشــروعهـم الحضـارى، وغيـر مستعـدون على الإطلاق لتأديـة المال لمالكـه الذى سـرقـوه منـه، ويطلبـوا الصفـح والمغفـرة.
البيحتـج إنـو ديل ما يمثلـوا الســودانيين، والوطنيـة تستـوجب تخطيهـم، دا إما أن يكون واهـم، أو جبهجى مـدســوس. كيف تتخطـاهـم ومعهـم الدبابات والطائـرات؟ والمهــوسـون الذين أقسمــوا فى الثلاثين من يونيـو أن "بقـم للدين مجـده أو ترق منـا الدمـاء"؟ لقـد أثبتـوا أنهـم غيـر مستعـدين ليتخطـاهـم أحـد إلا عبــر هـذه الدمـاء.
هـم أعتمـدوا كلام أنصــاف الرجـال المـدعـوم بالتنكيل والتعـذيب للشـرفـاء من المـواطنين.

أخي عبدالله


لك السلام

تابعت كثيرا من مداخلاتك منذ انتمائك لهذا المنبر الحر- ونعم هو حر في ان نتحدث بحرية-ولكن لاسفي لم ار نظرك يرمي كما يجب-ابعد من اخمص القدم ,ارفع رأسك اخي قليلا,واجلي نظرك هنيهة,وناقش دواخلك في صفاء
هل تعلم:
ان الخطر الحقيقي ان نطيل عمر هذا النبت السرطاني
ان كنت تعني بالخطر "التدخل الاجنبي" فهل سألت نفسك من الذي أتى باسبابه؟ من الذي فتح اصلا بوابات السودان واجوائه لكل قوى وقوات "الغرب الاجنبي",,,,
اخي ان التدخل قد غدا واقعا في حياة ويوميات هذه الحكومة المتهالكة منذ امد بعيد,اخي لا تجعل ناظريك فقط اخمص قدميك....
ان الامريكان يوصولون ويجولون منذ وقت ليس بالقريب في الخرطوم وغير الخرطوم ,في جبال النوبة وغير الجبال في الغابات والسهول,
ارجوا الا يخدعك عويل المحتضرين,,فهذا "الجنجويد الأول" مكانه فعلا قاعة تقاس على قدر جرمه -الذي طفح عن وجهه-في محاكم جرائم الحرب الدولية ,,,حينها فقط سيعترف بموسى هلال ,وما ادراك ما الجنجويد
وحينها يا عبدالله ستدرك الحقيقة
فارفع ناظريك قليلا


د.تيراب
الحق يعلو ولا يُعلى عليه

up

Quote: كانو ا المتداخلين على هذا البوست غير سودانيين السودان في خطر وانتو ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ سبحان الله اللهم احفظ السودان وابعد عنه اولاد الحرام ( الامريكان واليهود و؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

ومن الذي هوي بالسودان في لجج الخطر؟؟
أليس هو علي عثمان والبشير وتوابعهم؟؟
من الذي مزق النسيج السوداني وأشعل الفتن العرقية
في غرب البلاد؟؟ من الذي رفض أتفاقية السلام السودانية
عام 1988 وعاد ليوقع أتفاقا أقسي ؟؟؟ومن دول مشاكل
البلاد وفاقمها وأدخل ايقاد وشركاء أيقاد؟
وقبل بالتدخل الغربي؟؟
من الذي فرط في السيادة الوطنية وسمح لقوات أجنبية
بأحتلال حلائب؟؟وسمح لقوات موسفيني بأن تسرح وتمرح في
الجنوب؟ من الذي قبل الأن قرار مجلس الأمن وصار يسعي
لرسم خاريطة طريق لأنفاذ القرار؟؟
ومن بداء يحاكم في الجنجويد بعد الضغوط الدولية علي
الرغم من أنهم كانو من أخلص حلفائه وقد صرح عبد
الرحيم حسين يوما بأن الجنجويد مثل حزب الله لايمكن
محاكمتهم...
أن نظام الخرطوم يشعل الفتن ويعمق الكوارث ويرفض
الحلول الداخلية ولكنه سرعان ما يلعق ذلك ويسارع
بالأستجابة للضغوط الخارجية ...
أذا في رأي أن من يرفض التدخل والتدويل عليه أن
يكون علي رأس مهاجمي هذا النظام بأعتباره أس الداء
ومصدر البلاء والبوابة التي يأتي منها خطر التدخل
كمال عباس

Quote: ZB - So you admit these atrocities have gone on, the kind of atrocities I just described to you.. AOT - I don't admit that...in particular, there are no evidence. We stand to call on international communities to set up commissions to verify and investigate these allegations

الرجل لايعترف بوجود انتهاكات لحقوق الانسان ويقول ان لابينة تدعم هذه الادعاءات وان الحكومة السودانية قد دعت المجتمع الدولي لارسال بعثات تتحقق من هذا الموضوع .

أرجو ان انقل لكم هنا بعض الشهادات و الافادات من مقابلات حية لضحايا التطهير العرقي :

Litany of rape and abuse in Darfur region

GETHIN CHAMBERLAIN IN DARFUR


ONE man held her arms, others held her legs. They took it in turns to rape her. It lasted six hours. Afterwards, they sat her naked on a donkey and she rode back to her village as dusk fell.

When the baby is born in four months time she will keep it. But a part of her will always think of it as her Janjaweed child.

Fatimah Yousef Mohamed is 25 years old. Her head is covered with a pink and black shawl which falls over her body and the orange and blue dress she wears beneath, concealing the swollen belly inside which the child has been growing for the last five months.

She toys with the half a dozen silver bangles around her left wrist as she talks, sitting in the shelter of a plastic sheet draped over a frame of branches resting on walls woven from more bits of wood gathered from the countryside around the town of Kass on the border between south and west Darfur.

Fatima was married once, and had three children, but they all died. Her husband, unhappy, divorced her. They lived in the village of Kilek, 18 kilometres from Kass. After they split up, Fatima went back to stay with her parents.

In February this year, the Janjaweed attacked the village. There was no warning; they rode in and many people were killed. Some fled, others were trapped. The Janjaweed, the Arab militia armed by the Sudanese government, kept them prisoner there for more than a month. There was no escape. Fatima was asleep when the men came for her.

"One night I was sleeping with my parents and they came looking for people. They kidnapped me and took me to another village," she said.

The Janjaweed were camped in the village; it was about three kilometres away from Kilek. They made her take off her shoes and her dress, everything, until she was naked.

"They forced me," she said. "Four people had ####### with me. It lasted for six hours.

"They held me. They took my arms and legs and threw me on the ground. They held my arms and legs."

When it was over, they sat her on the donkey.

"I was naked. They had taken my clothes and they did not give them back."

When she rode back into the village, her parents asked her what had happened, so she told them. They took her to a local doctor, not a doctor really but someone who knew first aid, and that person said she should go to the hospital. Later, she discovered that she was pregnant. She is convinced that the child she will bear will be a boy.

"I will accept him as my baby," she says. She does not hesitate about this; there is no question in her mind that this is what she should do. But it does not make her happy.

"I am very sad for what happened to me," she says. "I will accept him but I will always think of him as an Arab, someone who is not from my tribe."

When the Janjaweed eventually left Kilek, the people abandoned what was left of their homes, those that had not been burned to the ground. Fatima went with them, walking to Kass to join the thousands of others who had made their way there.

They carried with them a few possessions, a couple of pans, some clothes, and they built a shelter from sticks and brush wood. Every day, more people arrive in Kass, building their new homes among the huts of the town. Some have moved into the schools to find shelter from the rains that fall every night now. A plastic sheeting handed out by the aid agencies offered little protection from the rain, torrential downpours that beat down for hours. The water finds a way through and washes across the ground, soaking everything. There are 40,000 people in Kass who have abandoned their own homes and Fatima is not the only one among them pregnant as a result of the rapes. Families huddle together inside their shelters, but there is no respite and little room to lie down and sleep. When Fatima does find a place to rest, she dreams. "I dream about the village and the fires, the houses being burned, but never the people who did this to me," she says.

The shelter in which Fatima sits belongs to Omer Ibrahim Abdul Wahab. He fled from the village of Karlik, 30km away, with his wife and ten children when the Janjaweed attacked.

At first they went to hide in the hills. Once the Janjaweed had left they moved back into the deserted village and stayed there for eight days without food, too afraid to move. It took them three days on foot to reach the relative safety of Kass. But before they escaped the Janjaweed grabbed Abdul’s daughter, Asha Mohamed Sadig. They were convinced there were rebels in the village; they ordered her to tell them where the fighters were.

When she could not do so - she said there were no fighters in the village, they lashed her with animal whips.

At first, Asha says they raped her but then she changes her story. "My friends were made to do this," she says. "They took them to the wadi far away to rape them."

Even now, she says, the women are not safe. The problem is that they have to go for wood outside Kass town. "If they go outside they risk capture," she says. "This has happened to some of the women living in the town. Once the Janjaweed have finished with them, they let them come back at sunset."

The road to Kass is harsh, riddled with potholes. Now that the rains have started, many of the potholes have become deep pools of water. The road passes through lush countryside. In some of the villages, there are people carrying on with their lives. But they are not the original inhabitants; there are Arabs who have moved into the abandoned homes of the black African farmers who once lived there.

Once, the Arab tribes would have passed through these places on their animals, paying to graze them on the fertile plain; now, they are masters of the land, and their animals graze for free.

The Janjaweed, too, move unaffected. At the roadside, one of their soldiers leans against the parapet of a bridge, his AK47 cradled in his lap. He is wearing army fatigues and a peaked camouflage cap. He waves the vehicles of aid convoys through, but lorries will pay him a toll.

Further along the road, there’s another Janjaweed on horseback, leading a second horse. The man does not look up, or acknowledge the presence of the passing vehicles. He shows no sign of concern, fears no threat. This is the border of south and west Darfur. This is his country now.

الشكر لكل المتداخلات والمتداخلين، وأرجو مزيدا من التشريح لهذه المقابلة التاريخية..

الأخ مارد:
أنا أيضا من المعجبين بالصحفية راغدة ضرغام، ولكن للأسف لم أطلع على حوارها مع البشير.. أرجو أن تنقله هنا لو كان لديك..

باختصار شديد: هذه المقابلة فيها الكثير الذي يدين حكومة الإنقاذ.. ومن الخير لهم وللسودان التعاون مع مجلس الأمن ومع الأمم المتحدة حتى يجنبوا السودان مصيرا أسوأ مما هو عليه الآن.. عليهم القبض على زعماء الجنجويد، والتخلي عن الاعتذار السخيف، كالذي يردده وزير الخارجية، بأن هؤلاء زعماء قبائل وإذا قبض عليهم ستقوم حرب أهلية.. هذا اعتذار أسوأ من الذنب.. عليهم تقديمه للمحاكمة، وأن تكون المحاكمة علنية، والحقائق ستتضح.. لقد حانت ساعة الحقيقة..

ويا مريم: أرجو أن تكوني قد شاهدت البرنامج..

شكراً ياسر

" عُذراً تم سحب عرض الفيديو حتى لايتعارض فى التشغيل مع الذى أنزلته الأخت زولة "

شكرا د. ياسر على نقل الحوار
واعتقد ان مشاهدته امتع من قرائة نص الحوار


Sorry

تحياتي
زولة123

الاخوه والمتداخلين الأعزاء جدااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااا

نحن كلنا سودانيين وبنحب السودان هذا الشي ما فيه شك

أحب أقول ليكم أنا سوداني أولا وأخيرا

وما أحب انه بلدي تتقطع حته حته

والخوف من الأيام الجاية وربنا ينصرنا فيها نحن السودانيين جميعا بمختلف الطوائف والأحزاب ( حكومة ومعارضه وبدون )

منو السبب في الحصل دي ما المشكلة الكبيرة لأنو السودان من الاستقلال كله مشاكل وعدم استقرار

لكن بما إننا نحن سودانيين ونخاف على السودان المفروض نفكر في كيف يخرج السودان من هذه الورطة بغط النظر عن من هو المتسبب في هذه الورطة ( الحكومة الحالية أو الحكومات السابقة )

والله انا بحب السوداااااااااااااااااااان شديد اكتر من أي شي



وشكرا للاخت مقدمة البرنامج الرائعة التي مازالت ترفع اسم السودان عاليا وربنا يحفظها وهي تتكبد الصعاب لتوضيح الحقائق



وشكرا ليكم انتو جميعا وكل زوووووووووووول ليه راي



وانا الكلام الكتبتو فوق دااااااااااااااااااك بيعبر عن راي وخوفي على بلدي السودااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااان

وشكرا جزيلا للاخ العزيز الدكتور تيراب وشكرا للمداخله والظهور بعد غيبة


وربنا يحفظ السودان ( اولاد الحرام الامريكان واليهود )

up

AOT -
يا جماعة الحكومة مزنوقة شديد فاذا كان هذا حال قائدها فما حال اتباعه.

كتب عبد الله بابكر

Quote: منو السبب في الحصل دي ما المشكلة الكبيرة لأنو السودان من الاستقلال كله مشاكل وعدم استقرار لكن بما إننا نحن سودانيين ونخاف على السودان المفروض نفكر في كيف يخرج السودان من هذه الورطة بغط النظر عن من هو المتسبب في هذه الورطة ( الحكومة الحالية أو الحكومات السابقة ) والله انا بحب السوداااااااااااااااااااان شديد اكتر من أي شي

بعض السودانية قديمة ...ولكنها لم تصل أن
التدخل الأجنبي والتدويل وتمزيق نسيج البلد الأجتماعي
وأشعال الفتن العرقية والجهوية بمثل ما فعلت الأنقاذ
والمؤتمر الشعبي ومن سكت ووافق علي أحتلال حلائب وأستباحة القوات
اليوغندية لجنوب البلاد ؟
ومن رفض الحل السلمي والأحتكام للتعددية وكفالة الرأي
الأخر... من رفض ذلك ولم يقبل الأبالحلول التي تأتي
عبر عصاءة الاجنبي أنها الأنقاذ أنها الأنقاذ

ولاأدري لماذ تصر علي تجاهل مسببات الداء وأس البلاء
وكيف سنعالج مرضا تجاهلنا مسبباته؟؟
لا بد من أجتثاث الداء وكما قلنا سابقا
في رأي أن من يرفض التدخل والتدويل عليه أن
يكون علي رأس مهاجمي هذا النظام بأعتباره أس الداء
ومصدر البلاء والبوابة التي يأتي منها خطر التدخل
كمال عباس

This is the most important post that tells the inner thinking of these animals. Motaz. the reason I am describing this person as an animal because there is no word in the dictinary that enable me to be nearly accurate.

For documentation

Here is the text of the interview:


Will the Sudanese government disarm the janjaweed?
In an exclusive interview for HARDtalk on 9th August, Zeinab Badawi talks to the Sudanese First Vice President, Ali Osman Taha about the deepening crisis in Darfur.



The United Nations has given the Sudanese government 30 days to start disarming the janjaweed militias who are accused of indiscriminate murders, rapes and other attacks against black African villagers in the western Darfur region.

More than a million people have fled their homes in the region and aid agencies are warning of a humanitarian disaster.

The government has been accused of backing the janjaweed.

Ali Osman Taha is the country's First Vice President. Here are some key points from his HARDtalk interview.


Meeting the UN deadline

ZEINAB BADAWI - You've been asked by the United Nations to disarm the janjaweed. Are you going to do that?

ALI OSMAN TAHA - We are really committed to disarm whoever is acting outside the law, be it the janjaweed, which is a local term which means the tribal outlaws and irrespective of their background, the government is determined and decided to disarm whoever acts or behaves outside of the law and make the life of people there in trouble.

ZB - Are you giving us a commitment now that you are prepared to completely disarm the janjaweed?

AOT - We are really committed to disarm all militias that are acting outside the law. Janjaweed, tarabora (PHON) or whatever name they have.

ZB - The janjaweed though in particular, who it is claimed, you have supported - are you going to be disarming them completely? And if so, within what time frame?

AOT - Janjaweed and other militias will be disarmed. This is a plan that the government has already embarked into and it will take the time that is necessary for us to deploy and put up logistics and manpower that's needed.

ZB- What is the time necessary? You've been given until the end of this month to demonstrate your total commitment to doing so. How much time do you think you'll need exactly?

AOT - We have already deployed 6000 police troops and we are planning to put the number up to 12000 men..

ZB - When?

AOT - Maybe over the coming weeks but definitely not within the time limit of this August

ZB - So you can't meet the deadline which the United Nations has given you to demonstrate your ability to disarm the militias, the janjaweed completely. You can't meet that time frame. Is that what you are saying?

AOT - We are doing our best to meet that deadline but definitely, due to logistical problems and limitations we have at the moment, I don't think the time frame is practical.

Disarming the janjaweed

ZB - Are you not going to try to disarm the janjaweed until the rebels start disarming?

AOT - I think, to have a real, stable situation in Darfur, it has to be done on both sides.

ZB - Is that what you're saying then, that your government will not disarm the militias until the rebels start doing the same?

AOT - The government has already started disarming the janjaweed and other militias but we say clearly that we cannot begin to have comprehensive stability without having disarmed both sides.

His reaction to various human rights reports

AOT - These reports, attributed to the UN, African Union...they are not correct.

ZB - Well, I mean, the African Union - we spoke to them personally before this. They said your government could be doing much more, the reports are in the public domain, there are eye witness accounts..

AOT - But they are not saying these reports are true. They may say the government of Sudan can do more but this doesn't mean..

ZB - No, they are talking about atrocities perpetrated by the janjaweed against innocent civilians, elderly men, women, children, innocent people.

I have to give you some examples. Have you heard about Human Rights Watch saying 65 mosques burnt in Dar Masalit with scores killed in mosques, one elderly Imam near Habila killed as he rushed home from the mosque to save his 3 year old orphaned grandson. Both of them were killed by the janjaweed.

AOT - These reports are reports of war and everywhere there is war, there could be atrocities. I'm not defending that these atrocities ..

ZB - You're changing your story now. First you were saying they weren't true and now you are saying they might have happened..

AOT - No. No. I'm saying that the degree..the numbers..the figures are not correct. But I'm saying that in the case of war, there would be atrocities, there would be violations of human rights. There's no doubt about it, but what we are supposed to do is to have a serious and genuine commitment to support the government of Sudan to perform.

ZB - So you admit these atrocities have gone on, the kind of atrocities I just described to you..

AOT - I don't admit that...in particular, there are no evidence. We stand to call on international communities to set up commissions to verify and investigate these allegations.

Arresting janjaweed leaders

ZB - Let me ask you about one specific alleged janjaweed leader, who the United States has identified as being somebody they would be interested in seeing being apprehended, Musa Hilal, often in Khartoum.

A Washington Post article dated 12th July this year said he was jailed in 1997 for killing 17 Darfurians. Why haven't you arrested him? I was in the same house as him here a few weeks ago in Khartoum..

AOT - No, no..He was arrested a few years back when there was enough evidence to do so by this very same government and if anything comes up again to warrant him being arrested or even sentenced, we will not hesitate to do so.

ZB - Why haven't you arrested him? You've had many chances.

AOT - Because we don't have anything. Nobody has come up with specific allegations against this very Musa Hilal.

The fact that he has been apprehended and arrested years back under this government is a proof that whenever there is proof the government will not hesitate to action.

ZB - But there have been very strong allegations, as you know. He has been accused of coordinating..

AOT - Allegations , you know better. We are talking about human rights. We can not just apprehend anybody or sentence him just on allegations. We have set commissions of investigations.

We have set offices of public prosecution and they are investigating the cases there. We have set an independent judicial commission to investigate the situation in Darfur and if any evidence comes up that warrants apprehending Musa Hilal or anybody, then the government will take action.

Stability in the South

ZB - Colin Powell says the crisis in Darfur could cost you peace with the South which you have worked many decades for. That's a possibility isn't it?

AOT - It may cause the peace in southern Sudan to collapse. Especially if those who are not happy with what has been achieved in Naivasha will take an upper hand in directing the events specially on the international media focus on Darfur.

But for us who have made this achievement in Naivasha and for the Sudan government in that case, we are interested in managing the crisis in Darfur as quickly, as promptly as we can.

International troops and observers AOT - I don't think the presence of international troops in Darfur would help providing security. What we do feel that if international security came to Darfur, that would aggravate the situation rather than pacifying it.

ZB - African Union peacekeepers acceptable?

AOT - African Union observers are acceptable at the moment.

ZB - The African Union has spoken of sending maybe two to three thousand people, soldiers to Darfur. Would that be acceptable?

AOT - That would only be acceptable if we think really this helps in controlling the case but we still believe Sudan's government as far as manpower is concerned can do the job.



HARDtalk can be seen on BBC World at 03:30 GMT, 08:30 GMT, 11:30 GMT, 15:30 GMT, 18:30 GMT and 23:30 GMT

It can also be seen on BBC News 24 at 04:30 and 23:30

د. ياسر سلام

هل تابعت لقاء زينب بدوي مع جون قرنق في هارد توك ?

تاريخ اللقاء قديم
تقريبا بداية شهر 10
يمكن متابعة اللقاء عبر الرابط التالي
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/04/hardtalk/garang28sep.ram





Zeinab Badawi talks to the southern Sudanese rebel leader Dr John Garang
How much is the crisis in Darfur part of a bigger play for power in the Sudan?

The government is facing pressure not only from the UN and the rebels in the western Darfur region but it's also facing resistance in other parts of the country.

Dr John Garang has been waging war against Khartoum in Africa's longest and deadliest conflict.

Zeinab Badawi asks him if rebel leaders like himself are any better than the government they've been fighting.

HARDtalk can be seen on BBC World at 03:30 GMT, 08:30 GMT, 11:30 GMT, 15:30 GMT, 18:30 GMT and 23:30 GMT

It can also be seen on BBC News 24 at 04:30 and 23:30

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3704634.stm

لي عودة

الدكتورة زولة
التحية ورمضان كريم
نعم تابعت لقاءها مع الدكتور جون قرنق.. وكان لقاءاً جيدا جدا..

أشكرك..
وتحياتي إلى الأسرة..