بمحض الصدفــة - وجدت نقاشات قديمة من سنة 2000 فى CD كان مركون

10:41 AM July, 02 2021

سودانيز اون لاين
Abureesh-أمريكا
مكتبتى
رابط مختصر

عام 1997 وحتى عام 2000 وما بعده بقليل، كنت عضوا فى منبر نقاش Sudan list منطلق من جامعة أيمورى فى ولاية جورجيـا.. الولايات المتحدة.
والنقاشات كانت باللغة الإنجليزية.. وكان دكتور يونس من جامعة أيمورى هو من خلق المنبر وكان يديره..
اليوم بالصدفة المحضة (ولا صدفة عند الله) وجدت CD وفيها عدد كبير من نقاشاتى مع بعض الأعضاء، منهم د. سعـاد والأستاذ الموصلى ومهندس أبوبكر سيد أحمد رحمه الله.
وأريك ريفز وعادل عبد العاطى.. كما وجدت البيان الأول لجمعية "سودانيون ضد الطائفية" الذى قمنا بتأسيسها عادل عبد العاطى وشخصى الضعيف.
يا له من تأريخ. كنت أيضا عضوا فى منبر أسسه الطلبة والاساتذة السودانيون فى جامعة متشيجان فى ولاية إيلينوى.
أبدأ المقالات بتعليق مهندس الراحل المقيم أبوبكر سيد أحمد على دعوتى لإنشاء المجعية المذكورة أعلاه:

Quote: Dear Mohamed Over 10 days back I've posted a msg with quotes from a Book on Sectarianism in Sudan and requested a discussion as the issue is of general interest..Regretfully the posting got no feedback..Here I seize the opportunity of your Call and repost it again "hereunder" -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: The party and the sect in the Sudanese sectarian system Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:34:50 +0400 From: abubakr sidahmed Reply-To: Sudan Discussion To: mailto:[email protected]@LISTSERV.CC.EMORY.EDU References: Dear Friends For Discussion: ---------------- Who "is/not" sectarian in Sudan؟؟؟ ----------------------------------- I wish if we try some more input in the issue of "sectarianism" in Sudan.. The issue deserves more attention... *Is Sectarianism in Sudan restricted to what usually called the Sectarian Parties (main two parties)..؟؟ *Are the followers of other Sufi orders are "sectarian" or not؟؟ *When Inqaz (NIF regime) forced it's way to power it claimed that "abolsihing of Sectarianism" is their main task or one main task..؟؟However over the last decade they themselves turned to be a sort of an "Order" and "sect" with their own "Shaikh and Sijjadh", their own "Fiqh" and own "Khulafa "؟؟ AL Bashier, Turabi and others opf their leaders never missed an occassion related to a Sufi Sect without being there or having a sort of presnece..؟؟ *How Educated and intellectuals who follow a certain Sufi sect -or at least feel affiliated or associated with- define their political association accordingly..؟؟؟ * How can we in Sudan "sideline" sectarianism!! from our "Political life" ؟؟؟ To initiate such discussion and since I'm reading nowadays an old book (published 1986 but compiled earlier during Numerie era) by Dr. Ahmed AL Shahi titled" Themes from Northern Sudan" where "Sufism in Modern Sudan " is a chapter in this interesting book I thought to share with you the following exerpts (apologies Isam !! it is becoming a long posting): (1)---quote------ One major feature of Sudan's internal politics has been the influence and dominance of sectarianism, 'td'ifiyya, since the nineteenth century. This long established tradition of political involvement by religious orders reflects a continuing belief in and allegiance to sectarianism. Nationalist movements have incorporated differing religious groups, whether followers of Sufl orders or fundamentalists, in their drive for independence. Even members of the growing educated class, who advocate the secularity of politics, are either followers of Sufl orders or have allied themselves with these orders. The first national movement, the Mahdiyya, was religious in its motivation and it used religion as a pretext for political protest and action against the Turco-Egyptian rule (1821-1885). The two major Sufl orders, the Mahdiyya (or Ansar) and the Khatmiyya, have sizeable followings in the country, with the exception of the Southern Region and the Nuba Hills, and in consequence have participated in politics and in government during periods of parliamentary rule. There are other minor Sufl orders with a limited following and of little political influence, e.g. Shadhiliyya, Qadiriyya, Sammaniyya, Tijaniyya, Majdhubiyya, Ahmadiyya, Idrisiyya, Rashidiyya, Isma'iliyya and Hindiyya. But before embarking on assessing the influence and viability of religious orders in the present-day Sudan, 1 would like to give a brief account of how Islam came to the country. Immigrant men of religion spread Islam and Sufism in the Sudan, where some of them settled and established a following. Later, Sudanese men of religion founded Sufl orders which became specifically Sudanese and were confined to the Sudan . 2The Sudan never became part of the Arab or Islamic Empire. Despite the fact that an Arab/Muslim army unsuccessfully invaded the Christian Kingdoin of Dongola in the seventh century, Islam and Arabism penetrated the country peacefully and gradually through migration, trade, the citorts of men of religion and intermarriage. This penetration effectively started from the fourteenth century onwards from two main areas: Arabia and Egypt. As a result of this penetration, Islam, the Arab tribal system and the Arabic language became firmly established among the inhabitants of the northern Sudan. The Sudd, in the south, formed an ecological barrier which the Arabs could not cross at that time, and hence the southern Sudanese maintained their own cultural traditions. Immigrant and indigenous men of religion have profoundly shaped present- day Islam in the Sudan. These men of religion were received hospitably by the people and gradually acquired a religious reputation and a following. The Islam brought by these men of religion was orthodoxy in the form of Sufl or mystical orders.3 Thus Sufism and the associated belief in the power of saints became an integral aspect of people's religious life. But the Sufism which became popular in the Sudan was at variance with that of the early mystics. To the true mystic or Sufl there is a need to satisfy the deeper longings of the soul which seeks a perfect communion with God. Through love a mystic achieves closeness with God and ultimately an identification with Him, the Divine Oneness. This state can be attained by living apart from the world, by contemplation and meditation, and by chanting praises and performing religious exercises which produce a state of eestacy leading to union with God. The Sufis of Sudan would have been accused of heresy and polytheism, shirk, by the non-Sufis if they had included in their teaching the concept of the Divine Oneness. Instead, they instructed their followers to concentrate on devotion and ascetic discipline. Spiritual devotion is made first to the head of the order, the 'shaikh', then to the prophet Mohammad and finally to GOD" ----------------end quot (1) (2)----------quote------------ Both orders{Mahdiyya and Khatmiyah]relied on the rural areas for their principal support, but the small and growing educated class found it necessary to ally themselves either with the Khatmiyya or the Mahdiyya, as they did not have an independent power base in the country at large. Conflicting views as to the political future of the Sudan led to the formation in the 1940's of political parties in which educated people participated. There were two dominant parties: the Umma (the Nation) was formed in 1945 and was composed of Mahdists under the leadership of Sayyid Abd AI-Rahman, the Ashiggall party was formed in 1943 and was composed of Khatmiyya followers in the main together with non-Kbatmiyya group headed by the late President Isma'il AI-Azhari, who were supported by Sayyid Ali AI-Mirghani, the head of the Khatmiyya Order. The political organization of the Umma and Ashigga parties followed closely that of the religious organization discussed earlier. The majority of adherents to the rsulting two political parties were members by virtue of being followers of either the Khatmiyya or the Mahdiyya religious orders. Thus the fusion of religion and politics has been an inseparable aspect of Sudan's politics till the present time. During the same period, two parties were established which, in theory, were opposed to Sufl orders on ideological and religious grounds: firstly, the Communist Party (1946) which was, and still is, illegal and which drew membership from students, intellectuals, trade unionists and tenant farmers' associations, and secondly, the Muslim Brothers, who also drew their membership from educated people. The political philosophies of these parties filtered to the Sudan from Egypt, and both have established a small but strong following and an effective political organization in the country. While the Umma remained the Party for the Mahdiyya followers, the Ashigga Party was a combination of Khatmiyya followers and supporters of the late AI-Azhari whose aim was also to achieve the unity of the Nile Valley. The alliance between the Khatmiyya and AI-Azhari's followers came to be known in 1953 as the National Unionist Party (NUP) instead of the Ashigga. Differences of opinion between the two opponents of this alliance led to the dismantling of the Party; AI-Azhari and his followers retained the name NUP whereas the Khatmiyya established their own party, the Peoples' Democratic Party (PDP), for the first time in 1956. Thus the two religious orders, the Mahdiyya and Khatmiyya, formed their distinct parties, the Umma and the PDP respectively, contesting for power through elections" ---end quote (2)--------- (3) Critics of the participation by religious orders in politics have been the army, the educated people and the Muslim ]3rothers. The army has always advocated the secularity of politics, and has excluded both sectarian and secular parties unless they participate on the army's terms. The two successful army coups of 1958 and 1969 were staged in the belief that traditional party politics, which include sectarianism, are conservative and detrimental to progress. Apart from the army, another group who neither adhere to nor tolerate the religious orders are some educated people who advocate that these latter should confine themselves to the field of religion and leave politics to the literate and educated people. Their stance is based on the assumption that the support enjoyed by religious orders is composed of illiterate people who have blind obedience to the ######### of orders and who lack political awareness or understanding. From the point of view of the followers, just as they respect the religious authority of the head of the order so also should they adhere to his political stand because of their belief that he knows better and his authority cannot be questioned. In practice, the followers respect the decisions and recommendations of the head of the order because they believe that he has their interests and welfare at heart. Educated peole think that, with the spread of education and the secularization of politics, the influence of religious orders will disappear-a point of view which is debatable. People who cannot read and write do not lack political awareness or maturity. Sectarianism and sectarian politics have deep-rooted convictions which have been adhered to by people over generations. While the head of an order has the final say in making decisions, there has always existed a dialogue, channelled through his representatives, between him and his followers. Unlike the vacillating political stands of the educated people, followers of a particular religious order are cornrnited to its politics. Disenchantment with a secular political structure and authority strengthens further people's resolve to use Islam as a unifying factor and a movement of protest. The role of religion in politics is not peculiar to the Sudan, as is demonstrated by recent events in Egypt, Syria and Iran. In the Sudan, while the army has power, the educated people are powerless unless they are in alliance either with the traditional parties, as happened in the past, or, since 1969, with the army. Unlike the religious orders, educated people do not possess a power base and their influence is confined to urban centres. The rural areas encompass about three-quarters of the total population and it is in these areas that the influence of religious orders is prominent. Educated people have a useful role to play in the development of the country, but it is unrealistic on their part to assume that they have a better understanding of politics than people who lack formal education. The present alliance between the educated people and the army has not given a positive political lead to convince the so- called illiterate people that their traditional political association with religious orders no longer viable" -------end quote (3)---------------------------------- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mohamed Osman wrote: > > Dear Sudanese list members, > greetings, > > Today, November the 3rd. 2000, we, the undersigned, declare our > intention to work together and combine our efforts to fight the evil > tone, the tone of the infamous religious sectarianism. As you can > see on the attached declaration, (two GIF files) we shall spare no time > or energy to disclose to the Sudanese people the plain facts on the > sectarian system. This is the system that sectarians and fanatics > didn't want Sudanese even to think of challanging or to know about. > This is not an easy job.. It involves revising Sudanese history that > was written by the sectarians and tought to us in schools as facts, > it will involve re-evaluations of all historical events pre and post > independance, the circumstances of the forming of the sectarian parties > and the national movement in the fourties. > In a word, we will show the Sudanese people what the sectarians don't > want them to know.. We beleive in the capabilities ot the Sduanese > people to judge for themselves, but we know that in order to be able to > do so, they need information -not those dictated by the sectarians > during the last 5 decades. > > best regards > Mohamed Osman > Sudanese Against Sectarianism Association - USA

ترجمـة مداخلة المهندس الراحل أبوبكر سيــد أحمـــد

عام 1997 وحتى عام 2000 وما بعده بقليل ، كنت عضوا فى منبر نقاش السودان قائمة منطلق من جامعة أيمورى فى ولاية جورجيـا .. الولايات المتحدة.
والنقاشات كانت باللغة الإنجليزية .. وكان دكتور يونس من جامعة أيمورى.
اليوم بالصدفة المحضة (ولا صدفة عند الله) وجدت CD وفيها عدد كبير من نقاشاتى مع بعض الأعضاء ، منهم د. سعـاد والأستاذ الموصلى ومهندس أبوبكر سيد أحمد رحمه الله.
وأريك ريفز وعادل عبد العاطى ..
يا له من تأريخ. كنت عضوا فى منبر أسعد الطلبة والاساتذة السوداني فى جامعة متشيجان فى ولاية إيلينوى.
أبدأ تعليقك في مهندس الراحل



اقتباس: عزيزي محمد
منذ أكثر من 10 أيام ، قمت بإرسال رسالة تتضمن اقتباسات من كتاب بتاريخ
الطائفية في السودان وطلبت مناقشتها حسب الموضوع
المصلحة العامة .. للأسف ، لم يتلق المنشور أي تعليقات .. هنا أنا
حجز اسر يستولى
فرصة مكالمتك وإعادة إرسالها مرة أخرى "أدناه"

-------- رسالة أصلية --------
الموضوع: رد: الحزب والطائفة في النظام الطائفي السوداني
التاريخ: الثلاثاء ، 24 أكتوبر 2000 21:34:50 +0400
من: ابوبكر سيد احمد
الرد على: مناقشة السودان
إلى: mailto: SUDAN-L @ LISTSERV.CC.EMORY.EDUSUDAN-L @ LISTSERV.CC.EMORY.EDU
مراجع:


أصدقائي الأعزاء

للمناقشة:
----------------
من "ليس" طائفي في السودان ؟؟؟
-----------------------------------
أتمنى لو حاولنا المزيد من المدخلات في قضية "الطائفية" في
السودان .. الموضوع يستحق المزيد من الاهتمام ...
* هل الطائفية في السودان محصورة فيما يسمي عادة بـ
أحزاب طائفية (حزبان رئيسيان) .. ؟؟
* هل أتباع الطرق الصوفية الأخرى "طائفيون" أم لا ؟؟
* عندما فرض نظام الجبهة الإسلامية القومية على السلطة ، ادعى ذلك
"إلغاء الطائفية" مهمتهم الرئيسية أو واحدة رئيسية
المهمة .. ؟؟ ولكن خلال العقد الماضي تحولوا هم أنفسهم ليكونوا أ
فرز
من "أمر" و "طائفة" مع "شيخهم وسجادهم" ، خاصة بهم
"الفقه" وامتلاك "الخلافة" ؟؟ البشير والترابي وآخرون لهم
لم يفوت القادة قط مناسبة تتعلق بطائفة صوفية بدون وجود
هناك او وجود نوع من الانبساط .. ؟؟
* كيف مثقفون ومثقفون يتبعون طائفة صوفية معينة -أو في
على الأقل يشعرون بالانتماء أو الارتباط - تحديد سياستهم
بناء على ذلك .. ؟؟؟
* كيف يمكننا في السودان "تهميش" الطائفية !! من "السياسية
الحياة" ؟؟؟

لبدء مثل هذا النقاش ، وبما أنني أقرأ في الوقت الحاضر كتابًا قديمًا
(تم نشره عام 1986 ولكن تم تجميعه في وقت سابق خلال عصر الأرقام) بواسطة الدكتور أحمد
AL
شاهي بعنوان "مواضيع من شمال السودان" حيث "الصوفية في العصر الحديث
السودان
"فصل في هذا الكتاب المثير للاهتمام ، والذي فكرت في مشاركته معكم
المقتطفات التالية (اعتذار عصام !! لقد أصبح نشر طويل):

(1) - اقتباس ------

كان التأثير أحد السمات الرئيسية لسياسة السودان الداخلية
وهيمنة الطائفية منذ التاسع عشر
مئة عام. هذا التقليد الراسخ منذ فترة طويلة للمشاركة السياسية من قبل
تعكس الأوامر الدينية استمرار الإيمان والولاء ل
الطائفية. أدرجت الحركات القومية الاختلاف
الجماعات الدينية ، سواء كانت من أتباع أوامر سوفل أو الأصوليين
في سعيهم من أجل الاستقلال. حتى أعضاء المتعلمين المتزايدين
الطبقة ، الذين يدافعون عن علمانية السياسة ، هم إما أتباع
أوامر Sufl أو تحالفوا مع هذه الأوامر. الأول
الحركة الوطنية،
المهدية ، كانت متدينة في دوافعها واستخدمت الدين كشيء
ذريعة للاحتجاج والعمل السياسي التركي المصري
قاعدة
(1821-1885).
أمريتا الصوفان الرئيسيتان ، المهدية (أو الأنصار) والختمية ،
لها أتباع كبير في الدولة ، باستثناء
المنطقة الجنوبية وتلال النوبة ، ونتيجة لذلك
شارك
في السياسة والحكومة خلال فترات الحكم البرلماني.
هناك أوامر Sufl ثانوية أخرى ذات متابعة محدودة و
القليل
التأثير السياسي ، على سبيل المثال الشاذلية ، القادرية ، السمانية ،
التيجانية ،
المجدوبية ، الأحمدية ، الإدريسية ، الراشدية ، الإسماعيلية
الهندية.
ولكن قبل الشروع في تقييم تأثير وجدوى
الأوامر الدينية في السودان الحالي ، 1 تود أن أقدم موجزًا
حساب كيف جاء الإسلام إلى البلاد.
نشر رجال الدين المهاجرون الإسلام والصوفية في السودان حيث
استقر بعضهم وأنشأ أتباعًا. فيما بعد ، رجال سودانيون
من
أسس الدين أوامر Sufl التي أصبحت على وجه التحديد سودانية و
كانوا
محصورة في السودان. 2 ـ السودان لم يصبح أبدًا جزءًا من العرب أو
الإمبراطورية الإسلامية. بالرغم من كونه جيشاً عربياً / مسلماً
دون جدوى
غزا الملك المسيحي دنقلا في القرن السابع ، الإسلام
والعروبة اخترقت البلاد سلميا وتدريجيا عبرها
الهجرة والتجارة ومذاهب رجال الدين والزواج المختلط.
هذا
بدأ الاختراق بشكل فعال من القرن الرابع عشر فصاعدًا
من عند
مجالين رئيسيين: شبه الجزيرة العربية ومصر. نتيجة لهذا الاختراق ،
ترسخ الإسلام والنظام القبلي العربي واللغة العربية
إس

الترجمة أعلاه من قوقل وظاهر الضعف فيها.. أخير من لا شئ لغير الناطقين بالإنجليزية