Conflict In Marxism

You are invited to this soft debate

Marx Argues :Inevitable and continual conflict
caused by inequality resulting
from social class differences

Capitalist society
creates
polarization between
the proletariat
and the bourgeoisie,
in which the proletariat
is exploited by the bourgeoisie;

Exploitation leads to alienation and powerlessness

Class struggle is inevitable

Let us focus in these two concepts
of alienations and powerless

Dear Gor

The Dialectical Materialism argues the following:

Just as colossal subterranean pressures that accumulate and periodically break through the earth's crust in the form of earthquakes, so gradual changes in the consciousness of workers lead to an explosion in the class struggle. A strike in a factory is not caused by outside "agitators", but is produced by an accumulation of changes within the factory that finally pushes the workforce to strike. The "cause" of the strike maybe something quite small and incidental, a tea-break for instance, but it has become "the last straw that breaks the camel's back", to use a popular (dialectical) expression. It has become the catalyst whereby quantity changes into quality.

So let us go through it step by step

Lenin also laid great stress on the importance of contradiction as the motive force of development. "It is common knowledge that, in any given society, the strivings of some of its members conflict with the strivings of others, that social life is full of contradictions, and that history reveals a struggle between nations and societies, as well as within nations and societies, and, besides, an alternation of periods of revolution and reaction, peace and war, stagnation and rapid progress or decline." (Lenin, Three Sources and Component Parts of Marxism).

Dear Asim Fageary
Thank you very much for your conterbution to this question
please note that :this epistemological post focuses on these words ( Alienation and powerlessness).I think we still far away to capture the epistemological and Marxisim meaning of Alienation what do think?

If the alienation couses conflict
that means the word alienation has
profound psychological meaning!!

Quote: Lenin also laid great stress on the importance of contradiction as the motive force of development. "It is common knowledge that, in any given society, the strivings of some of its members conflict with the strivings of others, that social life is full of contradictions, and that history reveals a struggle between nations and societies, as well as within nations and societies, and, besides, an alternation of periods of revolution and reaction, peace and war, stagnation and rapid progress or decline." (Lenin, Three Sources and Component Parts of Marxism

I will come back to Lenin argument and conflict assumtion
after the discovering of the real meaning of Marx Alienation

Dear my friend Gor
greeting
with my regards
I can only understand every other word your spelling needs help.ha ha ha

Quote: conterbution

Quote: If the alienation couses conflict

Quote: I will come back to Lenin argument and conflict assumtion

Alienation and powerless) it's really great and valuable issue I will come back to it)

Dear Gor

What Marx means by alienation is that: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production

and on base of this theory of Alienation he built later on the technical critique of capitalism as an economic system, where it intreprets that, in modern industrial production under capitalist conditions workers will inevitably lose control of their lives by losing control over their work . This what is clearly mentioned in the Capitalism and Alienation publications of Marx.

If you have criticized it, please pass your judgment to us and let us see, may be we can develop it further to be accepted by us as well.

Many thanks

Asim Fageary

Dear Gor

The most basic fact of capitalist industrialization is that it has created a world in which essentially all human beings are dependent on each other--and on the human-made environment which they have created with their increasingly productive labor. It is, thus, the entire human-made world which constitutes the product that "confronts" its makers as an "alien power."

Quote: What Marx means by alienation is that: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production

Okay... like Sufism in the continental philosophy

Dear hessain

Yes…..when I write , some one
like you is needed for
English Language correction
hahhahahahahahahahah

Dear Gor,

Go ahead and regarding spelling mistake you can just read the text two or three times and then send it after making sure that it is free of mistakes

Quote: If the alienation couses conflict that means the word alienation has profound psychological meaning!!

Quote: What Marx means by alienation is that: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production

]Dear my friends Gor and
Asim Fageary
Greeting
As I said previously in my early introduction, alienation is a very important subject. My concern is to discuss it farther from different source and ways.

Below are headlines of the concept "alienation" in different philosophical views, I prefer to put them like that, and I will come back to detail them specifically the one in Marx’s view.

Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx

(Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source) Jean Paul Sartre

(I have just suggested that the concept of alienation seems to become questionable when the individuals identify themselves with the existence which imposed upon them and have in it their own development and satisfaction) Herbert Marcuse

(But that feeling of dependence by which man is more or less conscious that he does not and cannot exist without other being different from him and that his existence does not originate in himself) Lwing Feuerbach

(Religion is an outshoot of the father complex and represents man helplessness in the world.)Sigmund Freud
Also, the root of “alienation” in Hegel’s philosophy
Thank you
Awad hassan

Quote: Dear hessain

Gor, please not my name.

Dear Hassan

Quote: Gor, please not my name.

I am sorry if I have been of some offensiveness
your contribution to this epistemological post is vital
.I will come back for more exploration…
Peace,
Gor

Quote: Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx

Quote: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production

Quote: Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx

Quote: exploration

dear gor
what amazing debate.. i will love to be involve in ..and following up the concepts.. i will back
peace

Quote: dear gor what amazing debate.. i will love to be involve in ..and following up the concepts.. i will back

U R Welcome
Peace,
gor

ًwhat do you guys mean by peace?

Dear Dr. Gor there is an English discussion forum in this site, I wonder why would you have this post here
I hope that either you change it into Arabic or taking it to the other part and stay well.


, عزيزي د ابو القاسم قور لا ادري الحكمة من طرح موضوع الماركسية هنا بالانجليزية في وجود منبر للنقاش بالانجليزية في نفس هذا الموقع
ليتك حورت النقاش ليكون باللغة العربية
تقبل محبتي واحترامي

Quote: I hope that either you change it into Arabic or taking it to the other part and stay well.

I strongly support your request Dr. Mosley

Gor


متابعين نحح ميد الله

Mosely
What do you think about
exile and alienation

Quote: Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source) Jean Paul Sartre

Dear Gor and the guests
Greetings
To follow our subject “alienation” concept, let me fist start with Jean Paul Sartre and his claim, before we come to other philosophers, especially Marx our important one in this discussion.
Sartre is well known as an atheist philosopher and also a leading representative figure of existentialism philosophy. He believes in freedom and regards it our fate and destiny as human beings. Sartre takes alienation concept in different way from Marx . He sees the alienated person is individual who immersed completely in means and loses his essence and aims, and submits himself to life of society, without any kind of thinking, or critical attitude. Sartre sees even public education which encourages conformity, and mass media which through distraction take from the individual his capacity for real experience.

(Alienation is far more pervasive for Sartre than it is for Marx, since it arises from the fact of social life, and not from one of its aspects, namely the mode of production. The individual can avoid this state of alienation only by assuming the determinations given him, by the look of other, the meaning inherent in his environment, and the techniques which he employs, as means to his own individual ends. Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source. Alienation is the result of attitudes in bad faith, and its cure is the assumption of freedom. Bad faith is essentially a flight from responsible action, which is the only way to give a subjective meaning to the objective determinations which threaten us with alienation.
Sartre’s alternative to alienation is more somber than that of Marx, as it brings with it anguish which result from a recognition of freedom.)
Jean Paul Sartre- The Existentialist Ethic-by Norman N. Greene

Quote: Dear Gor and the guests Greetings To follow our subject “alienation” concept, let me fist start with Jean Paul Sartre and his claim, before we come to other philosophers, especially Marx our important one in this discussion. Sartre is well known as an atheist philosopher and also a leading representative figure of existentialism philosophy. He believes in freedom and regards it our fate and destiny as human beings. Sartre takes alienation concept in different way from Marx . He sees the alienated person is individual who immersed completely in means and loses his essence and aims, and submits himself to life of society, without any kind of thinking, or critical attitude. Sartre sees even public education which encourages conformity, and mass media which through distraction take from the individual his capacity for real experience. (Alienation is far more pervasive for Sartre than it is for Marx, since it arises from the fact of social life, and not from one of its aspects, namely the mode of production. The individual can avoid this state of alienation only by assuming the determinations given him, by the look of other, the meaning inherent in his environment, and the techniques which he employs, as means to his own individual ends. Alienation is experienced by those individuals who are immersed in means and lose sight of ends, or accept their ends ready-made from exterior source. Alienation is the result of attitudes in bad faith, and its cure is the assumption of freedom. Bad faith is essentially a flight from responsible action, which is the only way to give a subjective meaning to the objective determinations which threaten us with alienation. Sartre’s alternative to alienation is more somber than that of Marx, as it brings with it anguish which result from a recognition of freedom.) Jean Paul Sartre- The Existentialist Ethic-by Norman N. Greene

Dear Mr.Hassan
Thank you
This basically far sighted explanation
I will be back soon
Peace,
Gor

Quote: (I have just suggested that the concept of alienation seems to become questionable when the individuals identify themselves with the existence which imposed upon them and have in it their own development and satisfaction) Herbert Marcuse

Herbert Marcuse was a philosopher and one of Frankfurt school thinkers. The school connected with a place called the Institute of Social Research. Herbert Marcuse and his colleagues believed and shared Marx’s theory of historical materialism. Each one of those thinkers took this theory and fixed it to meet the need of modern society. They came to result known as “critical theory “
In his book “One Dimensional Man” published in 1964, Marcuse deeply analyzes and diagnoses the alienation concept in industrial society. He describes the mechanism through which consumer capitalism integrates individuals into its world of thought, behavior which threat human freedom and individuality in a complete administered society. Marcuse develops his ideas in a critical philosophical form to criticize existing form of behavior, thought and social organization.”One Dimensional Man” describes alienated individual in industrial society and how this individual loses his freedom and personality, and becomes dominated and alienated by the system of technology in industrial society.

We are again confronted with one of the most vexing aspects of advanced industrial civilization: the rational character of its irrationality. Its productivity and efficiency, its capacity to increase and spread comforts, to turn waste into need, and destruction into construction, the extent to which this civilization transforms the object world into an extension of man’s mind and body makes the very notion of alienation questionable. The people recognize themselves in their commodities; they find their soul in their automobile, hi-fi set, split-level home, kitchen equipment. The very mechanism which ties the individual to his society has changed, and social control is anchored in the new needs which it has produced.
I have just suggested that the concept of alienation seems to become questionable when the individuals identify themselves with the existence which is imposed upon them and have in it their own development and satisfaction. This identification is not illusion but reality. However, the reality constitutes a more progressive stage of alienation. The latter has become entirely objective; the subject which is alienated is swallowed up by its alienated existence. There is only one dimension, and it is ever where and in all forms. The achievements of progress defy ideological indictment as well as justification; before their tribunal, the “false consciousness” of their rationality becomes the true consciousness.
One-Dimensional Man – Herbert Marcuse—by Douglas Kellner

My dear friend Dr. Gor
This is not Bagara's(Sudanese Cowboys) ethics and behaviors
to invite some one to your home and wandering away from him
in anther place. your post is your home. please come back for
. the sake of Marx's alienation
hahahahahahahahahah iam joking

, we had a very worth
discussion before, with Bushra Elfadil's
wonderful poem " a rock in a mountain"
sakhra fi gabl[/B
do you remember that??????]

Quote: Marx Argues :Inevitable and continual conflict caused by inequality resulting from social class differences

Gor

Quote: Let us focus in these two concepts of alienations and powerless

Gor

Quote: What Marx means by alienation is that: how people are bound to become estranged from themselves and each other under the conditions of capitalist industrial production

Asim Fageary

Quote: If the alienation couses conflict that means the word alienation has profound psychological meaning!!

Gor

Quote: Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia) Marx

awad
Marx claimed that his doctrine differed from those of earlier socialist thinkers in that his approach was scientific whereas theirs had been utopian. Instead of formulating principles for the organization of an ideal society, he devoted himself to realistic analysis of European as it then existed. He was, however, just as indignant about the abuses which he discerned in the European social structure as the most idealistic of the utopian socialists. Because of his scientific orientation, and in accordance with his attack on moral systems as ideological, he was obliged to find a basis criticism of what he felt to be social abuses. He found it in the concept of alienation, which had been originated by Hegel, and which can be defined broadly as a state of affairs in which the relation of the individual to the world, society, and to himself is inconsistent with his welfare as a personality and a human being. Other words sometimes used with substantially the same meaning are self-estrangement and depersonalization, and the symptoms felt by an alienated person are similar to those of schizophrenia. The individual cannot recognize his own purposes in the results of his effort, and there is a gulf between his in intentions and the consequences of the acts which are motivated by these intentions. Another way of describing an alienated person is to say that the conduct required of a person by his social situation does not meet his emotional needs; human nature is out of accord with social system.
The particular form which Marx gave to this concept was a description of man as alienated by the economic system: In the attempt to provide for his material needs man organizes himself for economic activity and sets in motion a pattern of institutional development which results in dehumanizing of work for the laboring class, and a class system in which the worker is robbed of the fruits of his own labor—the theory of surplus value. The worker himself becomes a commodity like any other object whose value is determined by the market conditions. The capitalist system thus appears as inhuman, and the task to be achieved is the overthrow of the existing social order and the establishment of a classless society in which man’s self –alienation will come to an end. Marx apparently envisaged the classless society as a society in which human relations would take spontaneous forms. The class system, the state, law, the family, and ideology – in short, society as we know it—would with away and be replaced by natural and harmonious social relationships.
Jean Paul Sartre --- The Existentialism Ethic – by Norman N. Greene –p.150

Hello Mr.Hassan

Quote: My dear friend Dr. Gor This is not Bagara's(Sudanese Cowboys) ethics and behaviors to invite some one to your home and wandering away from him in anther place. your post is your home. please come back for . the sake of Marx's alienation hahahahahahahahahah iam joking

Thank you for joking .What a joker
In my invitation
I said soft discussion
If you get back to Brecht
you may find culture and behavior
are contributed to our alienation

Hi Hassan
our world
is plugging
in diffrent and
various problem
New ideas have
immerged out like
the identity ,globalization
the end of ideology .
however the word of alienation would stand
as areal challenging our battling for explanation
ideology also can cause alienation
transcendentalism cause alienation.
Sufism and religion create alienation!!
intuition of an artist makes him alienated.
when I said let us focus on alienation
I did not mean only Marx’s alienation , i examined the concept within
conflict studies . The word is very slippery and has so many faces
let us adopt and tolerate thinking and meditation ...
My friend
why I feel alienated ?????

Quote: Hi Hassan our world is plugging in diffrent and various problem New ideas have immerged out like the identity ,globalization the end of ideology . however the word of alienation would stand as areal challenging our battling for explanation ideology also can cause alienation transcendentalism cause alienation. Sufism and religion create alienation!! intuition of an artist makes him alienated. when I said let us focus on alienation I did not mean only Marx’s alienation , i examined the concept within conflict studies . The word is very slippery and has so many faces let us adopt and tolerate thinking and meditation ... My friend why I feel alienated ?????

This is absolutely valuable interference
with a serious statements and points and it is really
visualizes and reflects the dilemma of our present civilization
I will come to it in details after I add other philosophical opinions
about alienation.