John Garang With Kenyan Journalists
Garang
NAIROBI, Nov 18, 2004 (KTN TV) -- The leader of the Sudan People`s Liberation Movement (SPLM), John Garang, has said that the cause of Sudan`s Darfur conflict is basically marginalization.
SPLM Leader John Garang. (AP).
In an interview with KTN TV presenters Julie Gichuru and Waweru Njoroge, Garang blamed the humanitarian disaster in Darfur on the Sudanese government`s "counter-insurgency strategy".
He said there was no relation between agreements signed between the Sudanese government and the war in Darfur, adding that the Darfur rebellion was "formally organized in 2001".
He called for a "comprehensive political settlement, both for southern Sudan as well as for Darfur".
The following is the text of the interview broadcast live by Kenyan KTN TV on 18 November; subheadings inserted editorially :
Presenter Julie Gichuru: We are joined by leader of the Sudan People`s Liberation Movement (SPLM) Dr John Garang de Mabior. Thank You very much for joining us tonight.
Garang: Thank you.
Gichuru: Let`s start with an overall look at the situation in Sudan. Twenty-one years of civil war, an estimated two million people dead, millions of others displaced in the process. Just when we seem to achieve a semblance of peace in southern Sudan, Darfur breaks out into conflict. What`s the cause of this?
DARFUR CONFLICT
Garang: It is a complex situation but there is no time to explain all. But it is an issue of marginalization. The people of Darfur, like the people of other regions of Sudan like southern Sudan, have been basically marginalized. They have no access to significant power, they have no access to wealth.
There is the issue of identity. Sudan has been described by the rulers in Khartoum since 1956 to be an Arab-Islamic country. But the realities of Sudan are quite the contrary. Seventy per cent of the Sudanese people are indigenous Africans, 30 per cent are of Arab origin. That`s the diversity of the Sudan. So it is basically an issue of marginalization, and the people of Darfur felt that they have no access to power, to resources, to wealth, and they rebelled, and the government took very harsh measures in trying to quell this rebellion.
The humanitarian tragedy that is in Darfur is basically caused by the government counter-insurgency strategy.
Gichuru: You have actually answered my second question there because I was coming to the fact that we understand that Darfur and the conflict has been precipitated by the agreements in southern Sudan and the people thought that well they have got a better deal, we need the same kind of deal in place and this is what the major part of the conflict.
Garang: No. It actually goes back quite a way. It goes back to the drought of 1984. So it has been there for quite long. It is a struggle of resources and before the rebellion in Darfur got formally organized in 2001, and this was before the Machakos protocol, the government used to call this armed robbery, which is the same struggle over resources. Whereas a connection has been made between Naivasha protocols and the war in Darfur, there is really no connection in terms of the rebels in Darfur taking up arms in order to get the same deal as the SPLM has gotten in Naivasha. The rebellion in Darfur happened before the Machakos protocol.
Gichuru: So that is actually a fallacy.
Garang: It is a fallacy. But the situation in Darfur is just as the situation is southern Sudan, that is neglect, marginalization - take what we call the New Sudan, which is southern Sudan plus Nuba Mountains plus Blue Nile - this is an area that is greater than Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi combined - these are the areas that are controlled by the SPLM - and in this vast territory, since the days of Adam and Eve, there has never been a [word indistinct]. That is just an indication of the neglect and marginalization that I am talking about in southern Sudan as well as in Darfur.
We obviously need a comprehensive political settlement, both for southern Sudan as well as for Darfur, as well as for eastern Sudan, as well as for the far north. So it is a very widespread problem in the Sudan.
SPLM GOVERNANCE
Presenter Waweru Njoroge: Taking up the issue of the north and south agreement, actually moving away from Darfur - when [word indistinct] involves power sharing and security and wealth sharing, how prepared is the SPLM for this kind of governance?
Garang: We are very prepared indeed. Without resources, we as a movement have held on for the last 21 years of struggle. We have put in place a civil administration in the New Sudan - in southern Sudan, Nuba Mountains and Blue Nile. As I speak to you we are running over 3,000 primary schools. We have more than 30 senior secondary schools. We have an administration in place. We have regional administration. We have county administration. We have payam [as heard] administration. So, as a guerrilla movement we already had structures of governance. We will need to transform these structures from guerrilla-based structures to formal structures, that is, we shall form the government of southern Sudan.
"FREEDOM FIGHTERS"
Njoroge: And as you prepare for peace in your country how do you plan to shed the tag of rebel leader and become a nationalist?
Garang: It is quite simple. It is a continuation of the struggle. We have struggled for the last 21 years. We have been called rebel by others, but we don`t call ourselves rebels. We are freedom fighters, and when the fight for freedom is over, which means achieving our objectives, the objective of the New Sudan - the objective of the right of self-determination - the according to the terms of the Naivasha protocols we will form a government of southern Sudan and we will assume formal governance. There are lots of former rebels who have made the transition from rebel to formal governments. An example is President Museveni that talked in Gigiri this afternoon. He shed the tag of a rebel leader to become president of Uganda, the same thing in Ethiopia, the same thing in Eritrea. And so we have a lot peers, people who have gone before us.
Gichuru: Absolutely. Unfortunately out time is very short. On a final note. So much is said about conflict and so little about the person. We want to know - I understand that you have a masters [degree] in agricultural economics, a PhD in economics - How did end up chairman, leader of the SPLA and fighting this fight?
PROFILE
Garang: It is a long story. In the first war, which is the Anyanya war that lasted 17 years, I participated in that war. I actually first came to Kenya back in 1963. So I attended your independence celebrations here, I even taught school here, I was headmaster of Gatunga`ng`a Senior Secondary School, that is near Nyeri [central Kenya]. From there I went to the USA. I got my first degree in 1969 in economics at Grinnel College. Then I returned to the Anyanya. I was absorbed into the Sudanese armed forces as a result of the 1972 Addis Ababa agreement. I became a member of the Sudanese army in 1972 with the rank of captain. I went Fort Benning Military School in USA in 1974. I then got a scholarship to go for my masters degree at Iowa State University where I got a masters in agricultural economics and got a PhD in economics, returned to Sudan still in the army, became a colonel in the army and I was teaching in the University of Khartoum.
In 1983 when the war broke out we formed the SPLM/SPLA and I became chairman and commander in chief of the SPLM/SPLA.
Gichuru: Thank you very much for joining us.
Garang: You are welcome.
Gichuru: We hope we will speak with you soon. We have been speaking with chairman of the SPLM and of course leader of SPLA Dr John Garang de Mabior.
Material from the BBC Monitoring Service
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